Final Fantasy: Plot-centric romances

[DigificWriter]

Inspired by a sort of side discussion that cropped up in the Just Started Final Fantasy X thread, I have found myself interested in finding out, from my fellow FF fans, just how 'plot-centric' the major romances in the FF series of games actually are. To get the discussion started, here's my own thoughts on this:
Cecil Harvey and Rosa Farrell: I had previously believed that this romance was only relevant to the plot of FFIV insofar as it affected Cecil's own characterization, but have since come to find out that it is apparently much more central and significant to the overall plot of the game than I had realized or remembered.

Locke Cole and Celes Chere: I've never seen the relationship between these two as being particularly significant to either the game or their individual characterizations, but this is also something I was apparently mistaken about.

Aeris Gainsborough, Gloud Strife, and Tifa Lockhart: FFVII is one of the only installments in the FF series that hasn't actually really truly captured my interest, and so my knowledge of it is somewhat limited; that said, though, I've always seen the relationship between Tifa and Cloud as being much more significant to Cloud's individual characterization than the relationship between him and Aeris, but have never seen either relationship as being absolutely crucial to the overall development and plot of the game.

Squall Leonhart, Quistis Trepe, and Rinoa Heartily: I list FFVIII among my top 5 favorite FF games, and the primary reason for that centers around the relationship between Squall and Rinoa, and the way that their relationship drives the overall narrative of the game.The other side of this coin is of course Quistis Trepe's unrequited love for Squall, but I've never personally seen it as being particularly significant to the overall plot of the game other than having a whole lot to do with Quistis' individual characterization.

Selphie and Irvine: As with the relationship - unrequited though it might be - between Quistis and Squall, I've never seen this particularl relationship as being particularly significant to the overall plot of FFVIII, or even particularly significant to the characterization of Selphie, who seems to be defined much more, for me, by her individiual personality and interests than by Irvine's obvious interest in her.

Zidane Tribal and Garnet Til Alexandros XVII: FFIX is another of my top 5 favorite FF games, but my love for the game is based more on the overall story than it is on the characters individually, and, consequently, I've never really paid that much attention to how centralized the relationship between Zidane and Garnet is to said story.

Tidus and Yuna: I had previously considered FFX to be only the second game in the entirety of the FF series to feature a plotline almost entirely driven by romance (behind FFVIII), but although that has now changed, what hasn't changed is just how crucial the theme of romance is to the game and its sequel, FFX2. Casting aside the fact that Tidus ultimately is 'chosen' by the fayth to play a critical role in vanquishing Sin and ending the vicious cycle that had enveloped Spira, the majority of his motivation for undertaking the quest he does - and becoming the hero he becomes - is centered around his friendship with and attraction to Yuna. This theme is then repeated in FFX2, but with Yuna being motivated by her attraction towards Tidus and the relationship she developed with him over the course of the events of FFX.

Ashe and Rasler: Although Rasler's relationship with Ashe is introduced in the opening FMV of FFXII, I've never actually seen the romance itself as being particularly significant to the game's overall plot; the significance of the relationship has more to do with how his death affects and motivates Ashe's actions throughout the game, and the ways in which his death creates a 'snowball effect' leading to the backstory of the game and how that backstory affects the game's plot itself.

Wakka and Lulu: Wakka and Lulu are two of my favorite FF characters, but I've never actually seen their relationship as being significant other than for the fact that it is there, and ties them together in ways that are separate from their mutual desire to protect and help Yuna, which, to me, is the central 'driving force' behind their characters and the place they occupy in the narrative of FFX.

Thoughts? Am I 'off' on my interpretations of just how significant the relationships between some of these characters are to the plots of the respective games from which they originate? Are there other couples I've missed whose relationships would be considered significant to the games from which they originate?

 

[D Man]

I think you missed some major points by leaving out riveting love epics like White Mage/Black Mage or Fighter/Onion Kid , but your list seems pretty spot-on to me. I think CorporalClegg was right in the other thread about Cecil and Rosa, and the romance in FFX is absolutely integral to the plot. I wouldn't call the love story in FFIX necessary to the story; it's certainly a factor, but not the driving narrative force.

Locke and Celes is a tricky one, though...it's by no means the single most important thread in FFVI, but it does involve two of the more-main-than-the-other-main-characters, and I think it gets a little more attention than something like Cyan's lost family. Are any of the love stories in that game really the "core" of the story, though? I'd have to say no. It's more about espers, re-building your team, and beating a madman than any one pair of people.

 

[clint g]

I also agree that your list is pretty accurate. One thing that always annoyed me actually was that the romances in FFVII never really went anywhere. I mean, Ares up and dies before anything really develops and Cloud (the idiot that he is) just ignores Tifa. Plus, Ares's death never really served as a motivator for Clouds actions. Cloud was going to kill Sephiroth anyway, Ares was just a casualty along the way.

 

[DigificWriter]

I think the argument could be made, were one so inclined, that the fact that FFVII's 'romantic triangle' didn't ultimately go anywhere ties in with there being a sort of 'greek tragedy' feel to that game's plot.

There are a couple of other relationships that I've seen cited in various places that I wasn't entirely sure whether or not to include. One of them is a relationship that is highlighted in 'Final Fantasy VII: Crisis Core' between Aeris and the hero of that particular game, Zack Fair, who apparently has some sort of history with or connection to Cloud. I've never played 'Crisis Core', so for anyone who has, what is the significance of Zack's connection to Aeris, both in terms of her characterization from FFVII, as well as to the overall storyline of 'Crisis Core' and the overall storyline of FFVII as laid out by the 'Compendium of FFVII'?

The other relationshipthat I've seen bandied about is between Vaan, the main 'hero' of FFXII, and his childhood friend Penelo. FFXII is a game that I have indeed played - although I ultimately haven't gotten very far - but from what I remember, there really isn't much made of Vaan and Penelo being anything other than friends, and there in fact seems to be a bit of mutual attraction between Penelo and Larsa Solidor. There are bound to be people out there who've played FFXII - and probably its sequel Revenant Wings as well - all the way through, so I'm asking them to fill me in on this front: is there anything to the idea of a relationship between Vaan and Penelo, or between Penelo and Larsa? If so, of what relevance are these two possible relationships in terms of FFXII's overall plot as it plays out over the course of both the main game and the sequel Revenant Wings?

 

[clint g]

If there was any relationship of importance in FFXII, then I certainly missed it. One of my biggest issues with FFXII was the fact that the characters were just there. They simply served the plot, with little to no growth what so ever.

 

[The Fatman]

^^ That's certainly my biggest problem with FFXII, clint. I do think that the game had probably my favorite combat/gameplay mechanic of the entire series... but I did not care one iota about any of the characters, the world, or the games story.

 

[clint g]

Like you say, its a shame too because the world exporation system and combat was pretty decent. The story itself wasn't that bad either but the characters....bleh. I had high hopes for it as well, after the amazing characters we had in FFX. Here's hoping that FFXIII has some compelling characters.

 

[DigificWriter]

I like FFXII because of the story it is trying to tell, but do think that it probably would've been better if the developers had gone with their original intent and made Basch the game's primary hero, because Vaan is the weakest primary hero to come out of the series since it moved into the realm of 3D, at least in terms of personality, and he's not even one of my favorite characters from the game; that distinction goes to Ashe and Balthier.

Regarding FFXIII, everything I've read about it indicates that it is likely to get very mixed reactions from hardcore FF fans, because it discards a lot of the conventions that have become associated with the franchise, at least in terms of the way the story progresses. The characters sound really cool, though, especially Lightning (who, BTW, is basically a female version of Squall, which I think is awesome), as does the story.

 

[clint g]

To be perfectly honest, it doesn't sound as if its any more or less linear then Final Fantasy X, which I loved. Plus, just about every JRPG these days is pretty linear so I think I can get over that.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ What's your favorite game in the series, JOOC? Also, have you played X2? I really want to so bad, but haven't yet beaten X, even though I'm extremely close... I think (I rarely actually complete video games these days, for some reason).

 

[clint g]

My favorite by far is FFX. I loved everything about it, from the music to the art design (boy did I love the art design lol), to the plot, and most importantly the characters. It was one of those rare games in my opinion that just got everything right. That being said, FF X-2 was.....less awesome. I never really got into it but I'll probably go back and try beating it someday. Follwoing FFX would probably be FFIX. I really liked that one as well, and I felt it had a more cohesive plot than FFVII. Excluding FFXII, FFVIII would be my least favorite. I really didn't like the junction system in that game. The plot and characters were pretty cool though.

Where are you in X?

 

[DigificWriter]

^ Using the Farenheit to attack Sin. Not sure how much further I've got to go, though.

BTW, here's my top 5 favorite FF games, in order:
1. X
2. VIII
3. IX
4. VI
5. IV

You might be surprised by where I ranked VIII, but, personally, I think the game is vastly underrated. People just, IMO, don't appreciate the complexity and depth of what the game offers, both in terms of its story and in terms of the ways it lets you customize the characters. You said you don't really like the Junction system, but I've got a tip for getting the most out of it.

Although it might not be immediately apparent, each of the characters in the game adheres pretty standardly to a set job classification, and you can use those classifications, if you're aware of them, to help figure out how to make best use of the Junction system so that it works to its fullest potential. Identifying what class each character adheres to can be tricky, but I worked it out so you don't have to:
Squall - Fighter
Quistis - Blue Mage
Rinoa - Red Mage
Selphie - Gambler
Zell - Monk
Irvine - Gunner
Laguna - Gunner
Kiros - Dancer/Fighter
Ward - Dragoon

The way that these classifications affect the Junction system is that, by using them as a guideline, you can distribute the magic accordingly amongst each character based on the basic requirements of their individual job class. For example, Fighters traditionally can only weild White Magic and spells like Haste, Slow, etc., so you'd junction those types of spells to Squall and Kiros, respectively, depending on which part of the game you're in. Identifying each character's job class also helps in determining which Guardian Force to assign to each of them. For example, the GF Brothers has character-boosting abilities that correspond fairly closely with the traditional abilities of the Fighter class, so you would want to primarily junction him/them to Squall and Kiros. As another example, the GF Siren boosts a character's magic, so you would want to primarily junction her to Rinoa.

The discussion of late has gone kind of wide of the thread's original intent, so to get it back on track, I'm gonna ask the following question:

Of the above-listed primary romances, which one(s) are your favorites?

 

[Kibbin]

There are a couple of other relationships that I've seen cited in various places that I wasn't entirely sure whether or not to include. One of them is a relationship that is highlighted in 'Final Fantasy VII: Crisis Core' between Aeris and the hero of that particular game, Zack Fair, who apparently has some sort of history with or connection to Cloud. I've never played 'Crisis Core', so for anyone who has, what is the significance of Zack's connection to Aeris, both in terms of her characterization from FFVII, as well as to the overall storyline of 'Crisis Core' and the overall storyline of FFVII as laid out by the 'Compendium of FFVII'?

I could be a wrong about this as it's been a while since I played 7 and wasn't that impressed with it when I did. (It wasn't bad, just badly over hyped.)
But Zack is basaicly the person Cloud seems to think he is at the start of the game. Zack was returning to his love Aires and was killed along they way. Thus when Cloud takes on the semi-meta soul of Zack and starts dressing and semi-acting like him Aires is attracted to him because he reminds her of her lost love and he loves her mainly cos he's carrying over emotions from Zack. Thus the game gives a happy ending to all in some respects with Cloud getting the love of his life and Aires being reunited with hers.

 

[Venardhi]

There was no semi-meta soul assumption of any kind. Much of the story with Zack has gotten expanded from the original bits we're given, and altered slightly to boot, but Cloud simply had a personality disorder developed from the trauma of the events which lead to Zack's death, as well as the fact that Zack was essentially everything he wanted to be. He became Zack because he just couldn't cope as himself.

Aerith sees Zack in Cloud, but Cloud's memory is blocked by the same disorders that created his new personality so he doesn't realize that she is Zack's girlfriend.

Cloud doesn't fall for Tifa because Tifa knows he is living a lie, she was there to see him as a lowly grunt licking Sephiroth's boots and the shame doesn't allow him to even consider being with her, even if he doesn't realize that is the reason. She still loves him, in spite of all that, in a way that goes all the way back to their childhood when she couldn't have him because he was too busy trying to get out of their little town to see her. Because of his constantly overlooking her, she has confidence and attachment issues which is why she isn't with anyone else.

Cloud and Aerith's relationship is one of two incredibly damaged people. Aerith lost her parents as a young girl, shes the last of her species and has never felt like she belonged in the world. The one person she finds to love is Zack(who is an older worldly man who is just available enough to make her completely smitten), and then he off and disappears without a trace. Shes still recovering from that when this seemingly perfect guy comes along so much like her lost love and saves her, multiple times. You'll notice Cloud and Aerith never properly establish anything beyond a hollow G-rated infatuation(hints of a physical relationship exist but don't imply any larger of an emotional commitment). Cloud hesitates because his internal strife (see what I did there?) won't allow him to love anyone until he learns to get over his shit and accept who he really is and Aerith's abandonment issues combined with her passive and dismissive nature keeps her from making a move herself. Basically neither of them is emotionally able to handle anything approaching a serious relationship.

Meanwhile Zack is dead, Tifa pines away for the boy she could never make love her, and Cid is awesome.

At least that was my interpretation of it all. It has been a few years since I played it, I think I might need to have another run at it now.

 

[DigificWriter]

There was no semi-meta soul assumption of any kind. Much of the story with Zack has gotten expanded from the original bits we're given, and altered slightly to boot, but Cloud simply had a personality disorder developed from the trauma of the events which lead to Zack's death, as well as the fact that Zack was essentially everything he wanted to be. He became Zack because he just couldn't cope as himself.

Aerith sees Zack in Cloud, but Cloud's memory is blocked by the same disorders that created his new personality so he doesn't realize that she is Zack's girlfriend.

Cloud doesn't fall for Tifa because Tifa knows he is living a lie, she was there to see him as a lowly grunt licking Sephiroth's boots and the shame doesn't allow him to even consider being with her, even if he doesn't realize that is the reason. She still loves him, in spite of all that, in a way that goes all the way back to their childhood when she couldn't have him because he was too busy trying to get out of their little town to see her. Because of his constantly overlooking her, she has confidence and attachment issues which is why she isn't with anyone else.

Cloud and Aerith's relationship is one of two incredibly damaged people. Aerith lost her parents as a young girl, shes the last of her species and has never felt like she belonged in the world. The one person she finds to love is Zack(who is an older worldly man who is just available enough to make her completely smitten), and then he off and disappears without a trace. Shes still recovering from that when this seemingly perfect guy comes along so much like her lost love and saves her, multiple times. You'll notice Cloud and Aerith never properly establish anything beyond a hollow G-rated infatuation(hints of a physical relationship exist but don't imply any larger of an emotional commitment). Cloud hesitates because his internal strife (see what I did there?) won't allow him to love anyone until he learns to get over his shit and accept who he really is and Aerith's abandonment issues combined with her passive and dismissive nature keeps her from making a move herself. Basically neither of them is emotionally able to handle anything approaching a serious relationship.

Meanwhile Zack is dead, Tifa pines away for the boy she could never make love her, and Cid is awesome.

At least that was my interpretation of it all. It has been a few years since I played it, I think I might need to have another run at it now.

I could be a wrong about this as it's been a while since I played 7 and wasn't that impressed with it when I did. (It wasn't bad, just badly over hyped.)
But Zack is basaicly the person Cloud seems to think he is at the start of the game. Zack was returning to his love Aires and was killed along they way. Thus when Cloud takes on the semi-meta soul of Zack and starts dressing and semi-acting like him Aires is attracted to him because he reminds her of her lost love and he loves her mainly cos he's carrying over emotions from Zack. Thus the game gives a happy ending to all in some respects with Cloud getting the love of his life and Aires being reunited with hers.

Thanks for the insight into VII, both of you; like I said, the game never really captured my interest, so I haven't gotten far enough into it to really get a true sense of just how central to the narrative the 'triangle' between Tifa, Aeris, and Cloud actually is.

Although nobody has answered my question about favorite FF pairings, I'm gonna answer it myself anyway. My favorite pairing is Yuna and Tidus, but it's not simply a case of liking the pairing because I love the game from which it originates. The primary reason I like the Yuna/Tidus pairing as much as I do is because of how significant it is to the overall narrative of both FFX and FFX2, and because of the ways in which it shapes and drives both of the people involved. My favorite moment in FFX is the part where Tidus, Wakka, Lulu, Rikku, and Khimari crash Seymour and Yuna's wedding, because it really shows us - as an audience - just how deep Tidus' feelings for Yuna run, and just how personally invested he's become in wanting to keep her safe.

 

[Kibbin]

There was no semi-meta soul assumption of any kind. Much of the story with Zack has gotten expanded from the original bits we're given, and altered slightly to boot, but Cloud simply had a personality disorder developed from the trauma of the events which lead to Zack's death, as well as the fact that Zack was essentially everything he wanted to be. He became Zack because he just couldn't cope as himself.

Aerith sees Zack in Cloud, but Cloud's memory is blocked by the same disorders that created his new personality so he doesn't realize that she is Zack's girlfriend.

Cloud doesn't fall for Tifa because Tifa knows he is living a lie, she was there to see him as a lowly grunt licking Sephiroth's boots and the shame doesn't allow him to even consider being with her, even if he doesn't realize that is the reason. She still loves him, in spite of all that, in a way that goes all the way back to their childhood when she couldn't have him because he was too busy trying to get out of their little town to see her. Because of his constantly overlooking her, she has confidence and attachment issues which is why she isn't with anyone else.

Cloud and Aerith's relationship is one of two incredibly damaged people. Aerith lost her parents as a young girl, shes the last of her species and has never felt like she belonged in the world. The one person she finds to love is Zack(who is an older worldly man who is just available enough to make her completely smitten), and then he off and disappears without a trace. Shes still recovering from that when this seemingly perfect guy comes along so much like her lost love and saves her, multiple times. You'll notice Cloud and Aerith never properly establish anything beyond a hollow G-rated infatuation(hints of a physical relationship exist but don't imply any larger of an emotional commitment). Cloud hesitates because his internal strife (see what I did there?) won't allow him to love anyone until he learns to get over his shit and accept who he really is and Aerith's abandonment issues combined with her passive and dismissive nature keeps her from making a move herself. Basically neither of them is emotionally able to handle anything approaching a serious relationship.

Meanwhile Zack is dead, Tifa pines away for the boy she could never make love her, and Cid is awesome.

At least that was my interpretation of it all. It has been a few years since I played it, I think I might need to have another run at it now.

That's what I said.......-ish