Ferengi are just humans without the thin veneer of civility. Agree or disagree?
Ferengi
- Thread starter JeffinOakland
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Well, ignoring the obviously different physical features from humans the Ferengi seem to have their own brand of hyper-capitalism ingrained in their society and beliefs (the Rules of Acquisition). Capitalism, in its proper form, has only been around in human civilization since around the 18th century. In all of human history that is quite recent. Sure the Ferengi definitely represent the exploitative side of some humans but I don't believe they're bereft of all civility. They certainly do not share the general outlook on a civil society that humans have but to them acting civil has completely different connotations. Ferengi norms of civility were never addressed to my knowledge but I'm sure they would come off as selfish and profit-motivated to non-Ferengi.
Ferengi have way more civility than 21st century humans.
And way more business ethics too. Breaking a contract actually has consequences on Ferenginar, unless your mother happens to be dating the head of state.
I see it this way. On Ferenginar it's legal to do all the things 21st century humans illegally do with no consequences.
Quark's speech to Sisko in Jem Hadar is dead on.
And way more business ethics too. Breaking a contract actually has consequences on Ferenginar, unless your mother happens to be dating the head of state.
I see it this way. On Ferenginar it's legal to do all the things 21st century humans illegally do with no consequences.
Quark's speech to Sisko in Jem Hadar is dead on.
More than 24th century Humans too.
Ferengi might exploit their family and employees, but they've never had slavery. And they've never had a military war.
Quark said it best to Sisko:
"We're nothing like you ... we're better."
More than 24th century Humans too.
Ferengi might exploit their family and employees, but they've never had slavery. And they've never had a military war.
Quark said it best to Sisko:
"We're nothing like you ... we're better."
To be fair to 24th century humans, the wars they get into are legitimately defensive.
More than 24th century Humans too.
Ferengi might exploit their family and employees, but they've never had slavery. And they've never had a military war.
Quark said it best to Sisko:
"We're nothing like you ... we're better."
What is the basis of them 'never' having had a military war? Because they certainly did build warships (pretty powerful ones) and there was mention of at least one or two 'famous battles' in their history (although the one I remember didn't end well for the Ferengi involved).
You can think that if you'd like but my point is not all are like that. Truly that is a sad outlook on life if you think that being a human, or particularly American, makes one selfish and money motivated. If anything, that is a product of our economic system not inherent to being a human. Personally I'm motivated by having fun and eating good food both of which don't necessarily require money. Seems to me when a person thinks everyone is out for themselves it's how that individual justifies their own selfish attitude
How do we know the Ferengi never had slavery? Just because Quark says so?
Why trust Quark - or any Ferengi, for that matter? It's in their best interests to lie, any time, whenever they can get away with it. It's one of the damn Rules of Acquisition!
And even so, it's definitely in Quark's nature to gloat. Whether or not it has any basis in reality. And let's be frank...the way the Ferengi typically treat their employees pretty much *is* slavery.
Why trust Quark - or any Ferengi, for that matter? It's in their best interests to lie, any time, whenever they can get away with it. It's one of the damn Rules of Acquisition!
And even so, it's definitely in Quark's nature to gloat. Whether or not it has any basis in reality. And let's be frank...the way the Ferengi typically treat their employees pretty much *is* slavery.
I agree with you that the Ferengi should have no qualms about slavery since they're pretty much all about profit and slaves could only allow for the acquisition of even more profit.
I imagine Ferengi history would be pretty common knowledge throughout Federation space. If quark was lying about slavery or anything else as important, a high ranking Starfleet officer like The Sisko would know. The topic idea came about because a coworker of mne called the Ferengi "humans without the hypocrisy".
Ferengi are as diverse as any species on Star Trek. It's hard to lump them in a group.
Maybe our culture but humans aren't inherently selfish. The bushmen of Madagascar have no possessions and everything is shared (including parenthood).
Maybe our culture but humans aren't inherently selfish. The bushmen of Madagascar have no possessions and everything is shared (including parenthood).
It's already clear how close to slavery Ferengi culture gets just by looking at how they treat their employees. But women are quite literally treated as slaves in Ferengi society. Sisko should have shot that back in Quark's face..
Just read the Rules of Acquisition sometime. It'll become clear that the Ferengi pretty much have no sense of morals or ethics whatsoever. Just listen to some of these rules:
- "When in doubt, lie." (#266)
- "A wealthy man can afford everything except a conscience. (#261)
- "Never be afraid to mislabel a product." (#239)
- "Employees are the rungs on the ladder of success. Don't hesitate to step on them." (#211)
- "Not even dishonesty can tarnish the shine of profit." (#181)
- "Everything is for sale - even friendship." (#121)
- "Treat people in your debt like family - exploit them." (#111)
- "Trust is the biggest liability of all." (#99)
- "Learn the customer's weaknesses, so you can better take advantage of them." (#87)
- "Keep your lies consistent." (#60)
- "There's nothing more dangerous than an honest businessman." (#27)
- "A contract is a contract is a contract...but only between Ferengi." (#17)
Now tell me, how "ethical" do those rules sound? And that's only a small sample. "Humans without the hypocrisy"? The Ferengi ARE hypocrisy.
Sometimes I wonder why anyone does business with the Ferengi at all. It is perfectly acceptable in Ferengi business code to lie, cheat, steal, you name it. The concepts of "trust" and "loyalty" are utterly foreign to them. I wonder why this isn't more widespread knowledge in the Trek universe.
About the only thing the Ferengi really don't do is kill. They do have "Eliminators" - professional assassins - but that's a small subset of the species, and even they are looked down on by most Ferengi because Eliminators kill for the pleasure of it, rather than the profit, and they kill potential customers. So that's the pickle on the giant shit sandwich that is Ferengi culture.
Just read the Rules of Acquisition sometime. It'll become clear that the Ferengi pretty much have no sense of morals or ethics whatsoever. Just listen to some of these rules:
- "When in doubt, lie." (#266)
- "A wealthy man can afford everything except a conscience. (#261)
- "Never be afraid to mislabel a product." (#239)
- "Employees are the rungs on the ladder of success. Don't hesitate to step on them." (#211)
- "Not even dishonesty can tarnish the shine of profit." (#181)
- "Everything is for sale - even friendship." (#121)
- "Treat people in your debt like family - exploit them." (#111)
- "Trust is the biggest liability of all." (#99)
- "Learn the customer's weaknesses, so you can better take advantage of them." (#87)
- "Keep your lies consistent." (#60)
- "There's nothing more dangerous than an honest businessman." (#27)
- "A contract is a contract is a contract...but only between Ferengi." (#17)
Now tell me, how "ethical" do those rules sound? And that's only a small sample. "Humans without the hypocrisy"? The Ferengi ARE hypocrisy.
Sometimes I wonder why anyone does business with the Ferengi at all. It is perfectly acceptable in Ferengi business code to lie, cheat, steal, you name it. The concepts of "trust" and "loyalty" are utterly foreign to them. I wonder why this isn't more widespread knowledge in the Trek universe.
About the only thing the Ferengi really don't do is kill. They do have "Eliminators" - professional assassins - but that's a small subset of the species, and even they are looked down on by most Ferengi because Eliminators kill for the pleasure of it, rather than the profit, and they kill potential customers. So that's the pickle on the giant shit sandwich that is Ferengi culture.
Star Trek has a time-honored tradition of presenting entire species as having only a few basic personality traits and making it clar that members of that species who don't possess those traits are seen as abnormal by the species in general.
The bushmen of Madagascar would seem to be a primitive society uncorrupted by exposure to materialism. Money and possessions do weird things to the human brain.
Somewhat, but in regards to Ferengi we've seen aggressive ones that would take on the Enterprise D, we've seen liberals like Rom, and your average Quark-like bureaucrats. I would say out all of the species shown on Star Trek, the Ferengi had the largest spectrum of personalities (possibly do to the writers not knowing what to do with them in the early years of TNG). The Klingon, the Romulan, the Vulcan, and the Cardassian were much more uniform. The Bajoran also seem somewhat on par with them when it comes to diversity, what with the radicals and all.
Too bad the Romulans and Cardassians weren't given a wider range of personality traits. I would've liked see different sides of both rather than just general badguys. The only Cardassian that really seemed to break the mold was DS9's friendly tailor.
At 1st, in TNG, they were intended to be the next main enemy but it was decided they were too silly. I enjoyed how Quark represented traditional Ferengi values but was beset on all sides (mom, brother and nephew) with their more modern ideas. That made for a lot of great comedy but also some of the best dramatic moments in the entire series.
"The Ferengi are us. That's the gag, the Ferengis are Humans. They're more human than the Humans on Star Trek because they are so screwed-up, and they are so dysfunctional. They're regular people. And that was the fun of that." -Ira Behr
Well, Sisko couldn't really do that because if you go back a couple of hundred years in most human cultures women were little better than slaves too: couldn't own property, couldn't vote or testify at trials, young women had to marry who their fathers said, etc.
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