Federation PT Boat?

[sojourner]

Andrew Probert's PT Boat image in the SOTL thread got me thinking. In my opinion something the size of a fighter does not make sense in the Star Trek setting. The size of a 1-2 man ship is too small to equip weapons (and the power to run them) that would have meaningful effect against most starships. So, I went back to a concept from Starfleet Battles. The Fast Patrol ship (PF). The PF was big enough to have a crew of 6-8 but only for short duration. These are combat ships only. There would only be a cockpit/bridge and minimal engineering room. If not on a mission the crew would live in a PF Tender (mother ship).
I picture the ship being maybe half again larger than a runabout but with hardly any habitable volume. All available space is taken to support the weapons/shielding/power. They would be highly maneuverable and fast (hence the name).
With that, I thought I would play with a couple shapes to see what came up. This is 2 variations I have so far. Which do you prefer, widebody or narrow?

 

[Captain Robert April]

Hmm....I'm picturing something more like a beefed-up Danube class runabout.

And, this is purely a personal, stylistic choice, I'm getting a little weary of underslung warp nacelles. I prefer them up.

I dunno, I'd start with the PT-73, stick a couple of nacelles on her, and modify from there.

 

[EmperorKalan]

Andrew Probert's PT Boat image in the SOTL thread got me thinking. In my opinion something the size of a fighter does not make sense in the Star Trek setting. The size of a 1-2 man ship is too small to equip weapons (and the power to run them) that would have meaningful effect against most starships.

That assumes only a starship-to-starship level combat usage. There are a number of patrol duties, small-vessel engagement, and ground duties such craft can perform. (These would be the Fed's counterparts to the Scorpion vehicles seen in ST:Nemesis.)

So, I went back to a concept from Starfleet Battles. The Fast Patrol ship (PF). The PF was big enough to have a crew of 6-8 but only for short duration. These are combat ships only. There would only be a cockpit/bridge and minimal engineering room. If not on a mission the crew would live in a PF Tender (mother ship).

The attack fighters seen in DS9 likely fit this description, though they might have less crew. Likewise, "short duration" might be for a few days, maybe more for special missions, with sleeping alcoves similar to those on runabouts.

 

[Mysterion]

"McHale's Starfleet"?

You might take a look at Todd Guenther and Aridas Sofia's various PA (perimeter action ship) designs. I think they did a pretty good job at designing a smaller patrol combatant type of ship for Starfleet.

Maybe something between those designs and the Defiant from DSN.

 

[Wingsley]

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but what you're describing reminds me of the Space Cruiser Aurora in the remastered "The Way to Eden".

I wonder what a Starfleet version of this same design might look like, have the capacity for, and be capable of.

I'm not wild about the remastered Aurora's aft lines (nacelle pylons look to TNGish for my taste); I'd sooner see something more like the NX-Alpha.

 

[sojourner]

Meh, the Aurora was a space going VW Van, not a combat ship. And actually, the remastered Aurora's pylons look ripped straight from a Klingon D7.

 

[therealfoxbat]

Andrew Probert's PT Boat image in the SOTL thread got me thinking. In my opinion something the size of a fighter does not make sense in the Star Trek setting. The size of a 1-2 man ship is too small to equip weapons (and the power to run them) that would have meaningful effect against most starships. So, I went back to a concept from Starfleet Battles. The Fast Patrol ship (PF). The PF was big enough to have a crew of 6-8 but only for short duration. These are combat ships only. There would only be a cockpit/bridge and minimal engineering room. If not on a mission the crew would live in a PF Tender (mother ship).
I picture the ship being maybe half again larger than a runabout but with hardly any habitable volume. All available space is taken to support the weapons/shielding/power. They would be highly maneuverable and fast (hence the name).
With that, I thought I would play with a couple shapes to see what came up. This is 2 variations I have so far. Which do you prefer, widebody or narrow?

This makes a lot more sense than the way SFB went about it. Their Federation PF has a traditional Federation starship design (disc-shaped forward hull attached to cylindrical rear hull attached to two warp nacelles), except with all these elements on the same horizontal plane. (Kind of like a miniature TOS era version of Voyager...) For something that's supposed to have a crew of less than a dozen and ride piggy-back on a cruiser until deployed for combat, that seemed unrealistic at best...

I prefer the widebody, since about six of them would normally be mounted on the bottom of a starship hull, and I think that would be more difficult with the longer design. Along with the weapons systems (phasers, photon torpedoes, drones) the design should include some kind of docking hatch at the uppermost point on the hull...

 

[Icy_Penguigo]

In the SFB universe, fast patrol ships(PF's, gunboats, whatever you wanna call them) were never built by the Feds. They were the only empire with strong enough moral objections to not field them.

In SFB, fast patrol ships were extremely basic and stripped-down miniature warships. They carried absolutely no systems for long term operation. They had weapons, the reactors to power those weapons, and the engines to carry them into combat at decent speeds. In combat, they shut down every non-essential system to conserve power. This included life support and artificial gravity. PF crews wore spacesuits and were strapped into acceleration couches for the duration of a fight.

PF's were never expected to live through a fight. They had the punch of a starship in a package a fraction of its size, and were frequently tartgeted first in a battle. Their mission was to get in, deliver a hammer blow, and get out. Instead of focusing on survivability, most PF's just had extensive escape pods to spare the crews. PF's were extremely cheap to produce, which made this approach viable.

In addition to their cheapness, PF's had the added advantage of being able to be carried externally by larger starships. This compensated for the PF's lack of strategic range. Most ships larger than a destroyer could carry six of them into combat. It was always a rude awakening when an enemy ship detected a lone heavy cruiser, only to have it deploy six PF's and exponentially multiply its firepower.

Overall, I like the idea for updating this concept for the TNG era. It would have been cool to see something like this for the Dominion war. It makes sense, especially since 24th century technology could miniaturize weapons to a great degree(I assume).

I like your design so far too. I think the engines should be under-slung, if these are intended to ride on the bellies of larger ships. If not, I say move the engines up, purely for aesthetic reasons. Also, I like the longer, narrower version.

All-in-all, I like it so far. Keep going with it. I look forward to seeing what you do with this concept.

 

[therealfoxbat]

And, this is purely a personal, stylistic choice, I'm getting a little weary of underslung warp nacelles. I prefer them up.

I like your design so far too. I think the engines should be under-slung, if these are intended to ride on the bellies of larger ships. If not, I say move the engines up, purely for aesthetic reasons. Also, I like the longer, narrower version.

Perhaps for the sake of versatility, the nacelles could be side-mounted, on the same horizontal plane as the hull. That way, the PT Boat could have dual docking mounts (one above, one below) and be able to attach to either the top or bottom of its mother ship...

 

[Captain Robert April]

Maybe they could swing up or down, depending on the situation (I still like the idea that the nacelles should be able to "see" each other, regardless of how it's been disproven as a necessity). Possibly even retract in up against the hull for sublight operations.

I should do up some sketches....