Federation Brexit

[I_like_andorians]

Is it possible, or has it occurred for a nation to leave The United federation of planets?

How would the leave be managed?
Let's say for some reason the Andorians have a large governing ethics shift. And they decide they want to leave the federation. Is it possible? And how would the leave be settled? And how would territory be split?

 

[The Wormhole]

The Andorians in fact did leave the Federation in the novels, though they have since rejoined. In on screen canon, we know the Ktarians were "ejected" from the Federation for showing sympathy towards the Maquis.

 

[Mysterion]

I would point you to Diane Duane's novel Spock's World wherein Vulcan is having a referendum on whether to remain in the Federation. Some of the implications and mechanics of such a process are touched on.

 

[I_like_andorians]

I would point you to Diane Duane's novel Spock's World wherein Vulcan is having a referendum on whether to remain in the Federation. Some of the implications and mechanics of such a process are touched on.

Oh very cool. Thank you
Thank you also The Wormhole!

 

[JirinPanthosa]

The Andorians in fact did leave the Federation in the novels, though they have since rejoined. In on screen canon, we know the Ktarians were "ejected" from the Federation for showing sympathy towards the Maquis.

What's your reference for the Ktarians? That seems very out of character for everything else we know about the Federation. Unless you mean their entry was denied.

Leaving the Federation would be difficult. The process of de-integrating your military from the Federation would be the hardest part, and all the issues with members of your world having families with other Federation members. Would every individual Starfleet officer in your world have to personally choose whether to retain their Starfleet commission or return home, would you be an outcast if you did? Would members of your world in Starfleet Academy suddenly be held to non-member world standards?

There would also probably be controversy in claiming shared resources that originated from your planet. Who owns that asteroid mine in the outer reaches of your solar system, that's currently being exclusively mined by the Federation? What about the colony in the system of the neighbor star that is majority from your planet but not exclusively? There's probably be an elaborate legal challenge system for each individual resource.

 

[The Wormhole]

What's your reference for the Ktarians? That seems very out of character for everything else we know about the Federation. Unless you mean their entry was denied.

The Voyager episode The Voyager Conspiracy

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I Googled the script, here's what I found:
NAOMI: Seven.
SEVEN: Naomi Wildman.
NAOMI: Where are you going?
SEVEN: That's not your concern.
NAOMI: What's wrong?
SEVEN: Your father was Ktarian.
NAOMI: So?
SEVEN: The Ktarians were officially with the Federation, but they sympathised with the Maquis.
NAOMI: What are you talking about?
SEVEN: Who are you working for, Chakotay or the Captain?
NAOMI: Seven?
SEVEN: Tell them it's too late. Go!

I don't interpret that as being a Federation member world that was ejected by the Federation. I see it as Seven applying McCarthyist paranoia to the fact that they sympathized with the Maquis. The 'But' is not saying 'But they are no longer members', it's saying 'But this fact makes all Ktarians suspcious'.

 

[I_like_andorians]

What's your reference for the Ktarians? That seems very out of character for everything else we know about the Federation. Unless you mean their entry was denied.

Leaving the Federation would be difficult. The process of de-integrating your military from the Federation would be the hardest part, and all the issues with members of your world having families with other Federation members. Would every individual Starfleet officer in your world have to personally choose whether to retain their Starfleet commission or return home, would you be an outcast if you did? Would members of your world in Starfleet Academy suddenly be held to non-member world standards?

There would also probably be controversy in claiming shared resources that originated from your planet. Who owns that asteroid mine in the outer reaches of your solar system, that's currently being exclusively mined by the Federation? What about the colony in the system of the neighbor star that is majority from your planet but not exclusively? There's probably be an elaborate legal challenge system for each individual resource.

I understand what you are saying here. Though just because a nation leaves the federation, it wouldn't mean the people / citizens will suffer much. It's leaving a federation, not declaring war.
Just because my country has Brexit, it doesn't mean my husband is ejected from the country. And just because my country has Brexit, it doesn't mean my husband can't be in the English army or have to leave his post as a officer on a ship.

Though I agree the military and ownership of territory would be an extremely difficult one.

 

[I_like_andorians]

Migration and citizenship would of course be a hot topic, though unless war or dispute is involved, I can't see why any nation would stop migration.

 

[Tenacity]

though unless war or dispute is involved, I can't see why any nation would stop migration.

Might be less stopping and more controlling migration, having migration then being on that particular nation's terms and needs.

Leaving the Federation would be difficult.

A big part of this would be how amicable the separation is. If members do on occasion leave the Federation, and there is a existing procedure and mechanism in place to accomplish this, then any given separation might be "no big thing."

A simple matter of paper work.

The process of de-integrating your military from the Federation would be the hardest part

Starships, assets and personnel belonging the the separating member would be retained by them, that part would be easy. Assets that were acquired (in part) by way of financial support from the member to the Federation would have to be divided.

If Scotland were to separate from the UK, I would assume that Scotland would get (one example) a certain portion of the warships from the Royal Navy.

and all the issues with members of your world having families with other Federation members.

If it's possible to have family members from species/nations who were never a part of the Federation, then having family members from places who are former parts of the Federations shouldn't be a problem either.

Unless the Federation council is going to act like spoiled children toward former members and their people.

Would every individual Starfleet officer in your world have to personally choose whether to retain their Starfleet commission or return home

This might be the case, with individuals having to make a choice.

would you be an outcast if you did?

That would depend on the culture. If Florida separated from the United Stares, i would have no problem with Floridians who continued in the US Navy. The US military (my understanding) does have enlisted personnel who are citizens of other nations.

Would members of your world in Starfleet Academy suddenly be held to non-member world standards?

We know that Ro was a Starfleet officer without Bajor being a part of the Federation.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Hopefully the member worlds would realise what an absolutely terrible idea it is and opt to remain within the Federation, instead of resorting to xenophobia.

 

[WraithDukat]

We know that Ro was a Starfleet officer without Bajor being a part of the Federation.

I wonder who sponsored her application? We know people from non Fed worlds need sponsorship of a senior officer because of Nog.

 

[The Wormhole]

I wonder who sponsored her application? We know people from non Fed worlds need sponsorship of a senior officer because of Nog.

According to Voyager, Starfleet was fast-tracking Bajorans because of the hostilities with the Cardassians, so it's possible that requirement might have been waved.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I think there's some bit in the novelverse about the Caitians constantly leaving the Federation and then rejoining it...like a cat coming in and out of a cat door.

Other things:

- The Ktarians weren't ejected. Hell, we don't even know what "sympathized with the Maquis" even means. That's as vague a line as they've ever had. In any case, an entire world doesn't act with one mind...so to say that the entire Ktarian race "sympathized" would be impossible.

- We know almost nothing of Ro Laren's career prior to her court-martial, so it's possible that she did secure a sponsor to the Academy just like Nog did.

 

[thribs]

Why would Britain leave the Federation?

 

[WraithDukat]

Why would Britain leave the Federation?

Becoz wear facking siz ov arl doz ermagunts cumming in nd taking r jobs nd tarckin da suvranty away from is.

 

[Nyotarules]

Unless the Federation council is going to act like spoiled children toward former members and their people.

In the novelverse they act this way towards Andor when they leave, well the President does.

Why would Britain leave the Federation?

To stop all those aliens coming over here taking our jobs, and to get back the glory days of our empire. Rule Britannia!

 

[Tenacity]

Hopefully the member worlds would realise what an absolutely terrible idea it is and opt to remain within the Federation,

There could be dozens of really good reasons to cancel their membership. The Federation changed since they joined, or it wasn't a good fit to start with being two.

instead of resorting to xenophobia.

Why xenophobia?

 

[DonIago]

I believe in the first two A Time To... books a race does leave the UFP, though we don't really get first-hand exposure to that.

I agree that nothing here really suggests the Ktarians were kicked out. I would imagine "sympathized with" might mean that the Ktarian ambassador supported measures favoring the Maquis or such.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

There could be dozens of really good reasons to cancel their membership. The Federation changed since they joined, or it wasn't a good fit to start with being two. Why xenophobia?

Maybe they're being promised an extra 350 million quatloos a week for their health service

I'm sure there are some misguided reasons, but with the benefits of security, commerce, legalities, and political clout that being a member would bring, I don't see much negatives outweighing the overall benefits.