Explain These Movies To Me

[The Boy Who Cried Worf]

The other day while re-watching Godfather 2 for the umpteenth time it occurred to me that there is a big portion of the plot that I have never gotten at all. And it reminded me there are a couple of my favs that I have the same questions about. So help me out with your interpretation of these plots. Of course MAJOR SPOILERS BE AHEAD!





Godfather 2- I don't get what Hyman Roth's plan all along was. If I understand correctly Hyman wanted Michael to go in with him opening casinos and hotels in Cuba under the Batista regime. So what would it benefit Roth to have Michael killed especially when Michael hadn't given him any money yet? Did roth think Michael would become too prominent in Cuba and eventually force him out the way he did Moe Green? And what did Fredo tell Roth that could help with assassination attempt?

Poltergeist- Ok I think I get that the TV people were spirits who hadn't passed over completely to the other side and were attracted to the lifeforce of Carol Ann? And Carol Ann shouldn't go to the other side because that is the point of no return. So WTF was the ending. Were the TV people the spirits of the corpses that were popping up everywhere? And were they just pissed that Carol Ann got away so they decided to pop up and show their displeasure? And how bad of a psychic was Zelda Rubenstein that she couldn't sense dozens of angry spirits waiting to pounce? Oh and what was the big demon head thing that came out of the closet when they were pulling the rope.

The Shining- Ok I don't think I get any of this. Initially it seems like a standard haunted house plot. There was a terrible murder there a long time ago and the hotel is haunted because of it and possesses anyone family man that stays there like Jack Torrance. So again WTF about that ending. Was Jack Torrance supposed to have a deeper connection to the hotel's past somehow? Was some other force at work here? What was the relationship between Jack and Delbert Grady supposed to be? And if it was all in Jack's mind... how did he get out of the freezer?

 

[J.T.B.]

Those are movies I've thought about too over the years. Poltergeist I haven't seen in probably 25 years so I'll pass on that one. But here's a go on the other two:

Godfather 2- I don't get what Hyman Roth's plan all along was. If I understand correctly Hyman wanted Michael to go in with him opening casinos and hotels in Cuba under the Batista regime. So what would it benefit Roth to have Michael killed especially when Michael hadn't given him any money yet? Did roth think Michael would become too prominent in Cuba and eventually force him out the way he did Moe Green? And what did Fredo tell Roth that could help with assassination attempt?

I think Roth wanted Michael dead all along mostly as revenge for Moe Green, as simple as that. The Cuba deal was just to "keep his enemies closer." Michael was delaying the money because he thought the revolution could succeed, Roth couldn't help that. I don't think we can be sure what Fredo told him, but it was probably some inside info on security arrangements or something like that.

The Shining- Ok I don't think I get any of this. Initially it seems like a standard haunted house plot. There was a terrible murder there a long time ago and the hotel is haunted because of it and possesses anyone family man that stays there like Jack Torrance. So again WTF about that ending. Was Jack Torrance supposed to have a deeper connection to the hotel's past somehow? Was some other force at work here? What was the relationship between Jack and Delbert Grady supposed to be? And if it was all in Jack's mind... how did he get out of the freezer?

IMO the hotel or the land it's on is has an age-old "evil spirit" that caused the murders, the murders didn't cause the haunting. The hotel-spirit has some kind of physical power, which let Jack out of the pantry. So why didn't it just kill Danny? I'm guessing Danny's psychic power protects him somehow from the hotel-spirit, so it has to try and use Jack to kill him. The relationship between Jack and Grady is that Grady is an instrument of the evil spirit and Jack is becoming one also.

I think the photo at the end is intentionally ambiguous, but I think the gist of it is that Jack has some kind of spiritual connection to the hotel, like it has absorbed him and he has become part of its evil force, which is in effect ageless, existing back in the '20s and beyond.

But it's been a while so tell me if I've missed something.

Justin

 

[The Boy Who Cried Worf]

Those are movies I've thought about too over the years. Poltergeist I haven't seen in probably 25 years so I'll pass on that one. But here's a go on the other two:

Godfather 2- I don't get what Hyman Roth's plan all along was. If I understand correctly Hyman wanted Michael to go in with him opening casinos and hotels in Cuba under the Batista regime. So what would it benefit Roth to have Michael killed especially when Michael hadn't given him any money yet? Did roth think Michael would become too prominent in Cuba and eventually force him out the way he did Moe Green? And what did Fredo tell Roth that could help with assassination attempt?

I think Roth wanted Michael dead all along mostly as revenge for Moe Green, as simple as that. The Cuba deal was just to "keep his enemies closer." Michael was delaying the money because he thought the revolution could succeed, Roth couldn't help that. I don't think we can be sure what Fredo told him, but it was probably some inside info on security arrangements or something like that.

Justin

Yeah I've heard others say Roth primarily wanted to avenge Moe Green. I always took Roth at his word though when he had the talk with Michael and brought up Green. That he was saying both of them as mafia men have to accept that there will be violence between people and it is "strictly business" and knew Michael killin Green was just business. If not Roth is kind of announcing to him there that I know our business is together is finished and we are at war now.

 

[BennyRussel]

Those are movies I've thought about too over the years. Poltergeist I haven't seen in probably 25 years so I'll pass on that one. But here's a go on the other two:

Godfather 2- I don't get what Hyman Roth's plan all along was. If I understand correctly Hyman wanted Michael to go in with him opening casinos and hotels in Cuba under the Batista regime. So what would it benefit Roth to have Michael killed especially when Michael hadn't given him any money yet? Did roth think Michael would become too prominent in Cuba and eventually force him out the way he did Moe Green? And what did Fredo tell Roth that could help with assassination attempt?

I think Roth wanted Michael dead all along mostly as revenge for Moe Green, as simple as that. The Cuba deal was just to "keep his enemies closer." Michael was delaying the money because he thought the revolution could succeed, Roth couldn't help that. I don't think we can be sure what Fredo told him, but it was probably some inside info on security arrangements or something like that.

Justin

Yeah I've heard others say Roth primarily wanted to avenge Moe Green. I always took Roth at his word though when he had the talk with Michael and brought up Green. That he was saying both of them as mafia men have to accept that there will be violence between people and it is "strictly business" and knew Michael killin Green was just business. If not Roth is kind of announcing to him there that I know our business is together is finished and we are at war now.

Roth did want revenge for the killing of his friend, but it was still primarily business. He had Johnny Ola convince Fredo Corleone that if Fredo would help them "scare" Michael, Michael would agree to go into business with Roth in Cuba and then Fredo would have something important to do in the family business. By secretly showing Fredo around Cuba, Johnny convinced him that he would be "their guy" down there.

Roth had no intention of coming through on those promises, he just wanted a clear shot to kill Michael and take over the Corleone interests (possibly with Fredo as a puppet). Avenging Moe would have been the bonus.

 

[J.T.B.]

Yeah I've heard others say Roth primarily wanted to avenge Moe Green. I always took Roth at his word though when he had the talk with Michael and brought up Green. That he was saying both of them as mafia men have to accept that there will be violence between people and it is "strictly business" and knew Michael killin Green was just business. If not Roth is kind of announcing to him there that I know our business is together is finished and we are at war now.

That could all be BS, though, so Michael won't be suspicious. Michael told Sollozzo he understood the hit on Don Vito was just business, too, then he shot him.

Roth did want revenge for the killing of his friend, but it was still primarily business. He had Johnny Ola convince Fredo Corleone that if Fredo would help them "scare" Michael, Michael would agree to go into business with Roth in Cuba and then Fredo would have something important to do in the family business. By secretly showing Fredo around Cuba, Johnny convinced him that he would be "their guy" down there.

Roth had no intention of coming through on those promises, he just wanted a clear shot to kill Michael and take over the Corleone interests (possibly with Fredo as a puppet). Avenging Moe would have been the bonus.

I have no problem with that interpretation. My impression was that Roth was content with the operation he had, and it was a little late in life for him to start expanding to something that would rival one of the big families. Was Michael going after some of Roth's business? I don't remember. But apart from avenging Moe Green as a friend, I thought Roth was personally outraged by the idea that this young, college boy, Johnny-come-lately mob boss would have so little respect as to take out an old timer like Green who had done so much in his day. Who should have a statue in his honor, or however Roth put it.

Either way, it is pretty clear that Roth was running a long game against the Corleones, and Michael was pretty lucky to survive.

But while we're on the subject, two questions I have about the movie:

Why did the hit man say "Michael Corleone says hello" to Pentangili? Clearly he was not expected to survive, so why say anything, let alone some kind of misdirection?

Why did Rocco go on the suicide mission to take out Roth? I can't believe anyone thought he would get away with it; even if he lived it would just be to go to prison. I know it was important but it seemed too risky to send one of the capos; don't they have somebody good but on a lower level, more like the Cuba bodyguard? Plus it's kind of at odds with Michael's earlier speech about how their people are only loyal because they are paid well.

Justin

 

[Mojochi]

The Shining- Ok I don't think I get any of this. Initially it seems like a standard haunted house plot. There was a terrible murder there a long time ago and the hotel is haunted because of it and possesses anyone family man that stays there like Jack Torrance. So again WTF about that ending. Was Jack Torrance supposed to have a deeper connection to the hotel's past somehow? Was some other force at work here? What was the relationship between Jack and Delbert Grady supposed to be? And if it was all in Jack's mind... how did he get out of the freezer?

IMO the hotel or the land it's on is has an age-old "evil spirit" that caused the murders, the murders didn't cause the haunting. The hotel-spirit has some kind of physical power, which let Jack out of the pantry. So why didn't it just kill Danny? I'm guessing Danny's psychic power protects him somehow from the hotel-spirit, so it has to try and use Jack to kill him. The relationship between Jack and Grady is that Grady is an instrument of the evil spirit and Jack is becoming one also.

I think the photo at the end is intentionally ambiguous, but I think the gist of it is that Jack has some kind of spiritual connection to the hotel, like it has absorbed him and he has become part of its evil force, which is in effect ageless, existing back in the '20s and beyond.

But it's been a while so tell me if I've missed something.

Justin

That seems right to me. Basically, imagine the hotel as Christine, another of King's tales

 

[BennyRussel]

...

Why did the hit man say "Michael Corleone says hello" to Pentangili? Clearly he was not expected to survive, so why say anything, let alone some kind of misdirection?

Why did Rocco go on the suicide mission to take out Roth? I can't believe anyone thought he would get away with it; even if he lived it would just be to go to prison. I know it was important but it seemed too risky to send one of the capos; don't they have somebody good but on a lower level, more like the Cuba bodyguard? Plus it's kind of at odds with Michael's earlier speech about how their people are only loyal because they are paid well.

Justin

3 possible reasons for the "Michael Corleone says hello" line that I have heard:

1. it was an ad-lib by the actor and Coppola liked it
2. they meant to "wound" Frankie but not kill him and promote chaos within the Corleone family
3. It is actually a line in the book. Rocco says it to Fabrizio just before he kills him at his pizza shop so he would know that Michael fad finally caught up to him to avenge Appolonia's car bomb death.

Regarding Rocco: A heartless Michael sent him on a meaningless suicide mission and Rocco accepted it. This goes back to when Tom Hagen asked Michael if he thought he had kill everybody. Basically after Kay and the baby fiasco, Michael became a monster that killed anyone perceived to be against him. Even at the cost of a loyal friend or even his brother.

 

[J.T.B.]

1. it was an ad-lib by the actor and Coppola liked it
2. they meant to "wound" Frankie but not kill him and promote chaos within the Corleone family
3. It is actually a line in the book. Rocco says it to Fabrizio just before he kills him at his pizza shop so he would know that Michael fad finally caught up to him to avenge Appolonia's car bomb death.

Interesting. No. 1 actually sounds the most plausible to me, I didn't really see any evidence that Pentangeli was meant to live.

Regarding Rocco: A heartless Michael sent him on a meaningless suicide mission and Rocco accepted it. This goes back to when Tom Hagen asked Michael if he thought he had kill everybody. Basically after Kay and the baby fiasco, Michael became a monster that killed anyone perceived to be against him. Even at the cost of a loyal friend or even his brother.

Yeah, that works, though I'm not sure why Rocco would go for it. Maybe he felt guilty about not preventing the Tahoe hit? But that explanation fits well, thanks.

Justin

 

[The Boy Who Cried Worf]

Yeah I've heard others say Roth primarily wanted to avenge Moe Green. I always took Roth at his word though when he had the talk with Michael and brought up Green. That he was saying both of them as mafia men have to accept that there will be violence between people and it is "strictly business" and knew Michael killin Green was just business. If not Roth is kind of announcing to him there that I know our business is together is finished and we are at war now.

That could all be BS, though, so Michael won't be suspicious. Michael told Sollozzo he understood the hit on Don Vito was just business, too, then he shot him.

Roth did want revenge for the killing of his friend, but it was still primarily business. He had Johnny Ola convince Fredo Corleone that if Fredo would help them "scare" Michael, Michael would agree to go into business with Roth in Cuba and then Fredo would have something important to do in the family business. By secretly showing Fredo around Cuba, Johnny convinced him that he would be "their guy" down there.

Roth had no intention of coming through on those promises, he just wanted a clear shot to kill Michael and take over the Corleone interests (possibly with Fredo as a puppet). Avenging Moe would have been the bonus.

I have no problem with that interpretation. My impression was that Roth was content with the operation he had, and it was a little late in life for him to start expanding to something that would rival one of the big families. Was Michael going after some of Roth's business? I don't remember. But apart from avenging Moe Green as a friend, I thought Roth was personally outraged by the idea that this young, college boy, Johnny-come-lately mob boss would have so little respect as to take out an old timer like Green who had done so much in his day. Who should have a statue in his honor, or however Roth put it.

Either way, it is pretty clear that Roth was running a long game against the Corleones, and Michael was pretty lucky to survive.

But while we're on the subject, two questions I have about the movie:

Why did the hit man say "Michael Corleone says hello" to Pentangili? Clearly he was not expected to survive, so why say anything, let alone some kind of misdirection?

Why did Rocco go on the suicide mission to take out Roth? I can't believe anyone thought he would get away with it; even if he lived it would just be to go to prison. I know it was important but it seemed too risky to send one of the capos; don't they have somebody good but on a lower level, more like the Cuba bodyguard? Plus it's kind of at odds with Michael's earlier speech about how their people are only loyal because they are paid well.

Justin

Hmm, I have never thought about that that Roth might of actually had designs on the Corelone empire. There is the line where Michael says Roth is convinced he will live forever so maybe he did have a long term plan mapped out.

I have always wondered about Lampone too, does loyalty to the oath entail be willing to die for it on orders as well.

Also I always thought the Rosato Brothers never actually planned to kill Pentangelli only make him think Michael did it. I know the cop walking in was a coincidence, but maybe they would have stopped short anyway.

 

[BennyRussel]

...
I have always wondered about Lampone too, does loyalty to the oath entail be willing to die for it on orders as well.
...

He was given a direct order from Michael. He had three choices:

A. Carry out the hit and run like hell
B. Figure out a way to betray Michael and maybe switch loyalties to a different family to save his own skin.
C. Take off, dye his hair, fake his own death and attend his own funeral as a guy named Phil Shiftly.

He chose A.

 

[Rowdy Roddy McDowall]

Why did the hit man say "Michael Corleone says hello" to Pentangili? Clearly he was not expected to survive, so why say anything, let alone some kind of misdirection?



Justin

A true Corleone would never tip his hat so blatantly. The goal was to make Pentangeli think Michael betrayed him. Apparently not the case at the time.

 

[Mojochi]

C. Take off, dye his hair, fake his own death and attend his own funeral as a guy named Phil Shiftly.

That commercial is great. That's Zack from The Big Bang Theory

 

[Reverend]

Poltergeist- Ok I think I get that the TV people were spirits who hadn't passed over completely to the other side and were attracted to the lifeforce of Carol Ann? And Carol Ann shouldn't go to the other side because that is the point of no return. So WTF was the ending. Were the TV people the spirits of the corpses that were popping up everywhere? And were they just pissed that Carol Ann got away so they decided to pop up and show their displeasure? And how bad of a psychic was Zelda Rubenstein that she couldn't sense dozens of angry spirits waiting to pounce? Oh and what was the big demon head thing that came out of the closet when they were pulling the rope.

It's been a while since I saw the film, but as I recall the "demon head" thing was the big daddy spirit, the "beast" that was using Carol-Ann to stop the hundreds of trapped spirits from crossing over.

As for the bit with the corpses near the end; they weren't attacking anyone. They were just bodies from the old cemetery dislodged by the massive seismic disturbance of The Beast punching through again. All the other spirits crossed over two weeks ago when they got Carol Ann back and Tangina "cleaned" the house. The caskets and their contents are just inanimate objects that The Beast is throwing around, just like everything else in and around the house.

The Shining- Ok I don't think I get any of this. Initially it seems like a standard haunted house plot. There was a terrible murder there a long time ago and the hotel is haunted because of it and possesses anyone family man that stays there like Jack Torrance. So again WTF about that ending. Was Jack Torrance supposed to have a deeper connection to the hotel's past somehow? Was some other force at work here? What was the relationship between Jack and Delbert Grady supposed to be? And if it was all in Jack's mind... how did he get out of the freezer?

As others have pointed out, it's the site itself that is home to some sort of malevolent entity that has driven people to homicidal insanity. Best guess it somehow feeds off the terror and white hot rage it engenders in it's victims, and/or it corrupts and (for lack of a better term) enslaves souls. Either way, it's clearly very old and powerful, so opening a door shouldn't be too difficult and just killing people itself wouldn't do it any good. Indeed, the murder and mayhem is probably just a means to an end. As for the photo, I thought it was pretty implicit that it means that Jack is now a *permanent* staff member. Remember his predecessor who appeared as the bar tender? Same deal.