Exactly WHEN in 1930 does "City on the Edge of Forever" take place?

What month in 1930 does COTEOF take place?

  • January

    Votes: 1 11.1%
  • February

    Votes: 2 22.2%
  • March

    Votes: 3 33.3%
  • April

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • May

    Votes: 2 22.2%
  • June

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • July

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • August

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • September

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • October

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • November

    Votes: 1 11.1%
  • December

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    9
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Well, the calendar page is most likely June, 1967. June of 1967 starts on a Thursday, which would make the red 14 on the page Flag Day. The previous month, as seen here, shows day 30 as red, making it Memorial Day (which, prior to 1971, was observed on May 30.) The calendar artwork looks familiar but I can't place it.

And an amendment to my earlier list; January also follows a 31 day month.
 
If you have a constant stream of hungry homeless down-on-their-luck Depression-era folks to tend to, calendar page turning falls pretty far down the to-do list.
 
@JonnyQuest037: That’s a very attractive Holmes timeline, and it sticks to the established dates. I’m impressed by the illustrations you’ve selected, and the balance between real events and the stories.
Thanks. I've had fun putting it together, and the Sutori site is a really easy interface to use.

There is a bit of interpretation with my dates, however. That's pretty much unavoidable if you're doing a Holmes timeline, but I have tried to stick with the canonical dates wherever possible.
Well, the calendar page is most likely June, 1967. June of 1967 starts on a Thursday, which would make the red 14 on the page Flag Day. The previous month, as seen here, shows day 30 as red, making it Memorial Day (which, prior to 1971, was observed on May 30.)
Strange that they'd use a June 1967 calendar page when the episode was shot between February 3rd and 14th, 1967 and initially aired on April 6th. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it is a bit odd.
 
I grabbed this image of the calendar off Netflix. looks like May and July atop the small month calendars across the bottom.

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I grabbed this image of the calendar off Netflix. looks like May and July atop the small month calendars across the bottom.

Agreed. The red dates make it inarguable: the 30th of May, the 14th of June, and the 4th of July are logical dates to be highlighted (on an American-made calendar).
 
There are some odd things about this episode.

How could Spock not know what happened to Edith when he had an obituary. Did he not look at the date?

And Edith wasn't the only person affected. Some guy took McCoy's phaser and killed himself. Interesting how that didn't affect the timeline.
 
And Edith wasn't the only person affected. Some guy took McCoy's phaser and killed himself. Interesting how that didn't affect the timeline.

But it did affect the timeline; that guy would have been Zephram Cochrane's great great great Grandfather (on his mother's side), but because he died, someone else was, and that's why he looked and behaved differently in "First Contact" compared to "Metamorphosis".
 
Why should some guy killing himself necessarily alter the course of events? Perhaps he was going to die of pneumonia a week later or such.
 
Hello everyone,

I’m really impressed at how the 21st Street Mission’s calendar has been pinned down, and that @Ar-Pharazon was able to spot it straight away. The screencap @Maurice posted is the clearest I’ve ever seen of it. I hope you don’t mind if I use it to illustrate a corrected version of my own thoughts about this story? It’s a shame it doesn’t help with dating, but as a behind the scenes production detail I find it (to coin a phrase) “fascinating.”

Thanks to @Timo ’s suggestion, I’ve spent the weekend playing around with the Starry Night astronomy software (really good and very easy to use, but you do have to buy it, I’m afraid). I’ll try and keep this as short as possible, hopefully not to the point it makes no sense, though. The “far left star in Orion’s Belt” is Alnitak. At least to an observer in New York about 1930, it would be in the sky every day (although you wouldn’t always be able to see it), in the southern half of the sky. It would appear over the horizon to the east, spend six hours rising in the sky until it was just about directly due south and about halfway up the sky (Starry Night says about 47 degrees above the horizon). It then travels slowly to the west and goes back under the horizon about twelve hours after it first appeared.

To start, I found the day in 1930 when Alnitak would be at its highest point at nine at night. It’s the 13th February. I don’t think that’s enough to absolutely pin down the date, but it does make my earlier suggestion that it might be November look extremely unlikely. On 1st November, Alnitak won’t be over the horizon until about ten at night, and at its highest until around four the next morning.

I think having the stargazing happen earlier than mid-February is unlikely (the weather!), but it can’t be all that much later. By 1st May, Alnitak rises at around ten in the morning, is at its highest at four in the afternoon and sets about ten at night. I think it must be earlier in the year than that.

My own best guess is that it’s around the middle of March. Alnitak was highest in the sky at around seven in the evening on March 16th, when Starry Night says it was still too light to see it. By half-past eight it was dark. Alnitak was still about 40 degrees above the horizon, and would be almost directly south-west to anyone looking at it from New York. That means that if Jim and Edith are walking along one of the north-south avenues of the city, Orion (assuming they can see it at all) would be hanging in the sky directly ahead of them. This is by no means the only interpretation you could make, but I think it’s the one I’m least unhappy with.

Rather than make a long post even longer, I’ll just say that my previous weather information has been from these two sites:

https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cdo-web/datasets/GHCND/stations/GHCND:USW00094728/detail

for the day-to-day temperatures and

https://www.climatestations.com/new-york-city-2/

for some graphs that indicate temperatures, whether it’s raining or snowing, and if there’s snow on the ground.

@JonnyQuest037, how much weight (if any) you want to attach to my suggestions is of course entirely up to you. I’m having a lot of fun reading the thread, and digging all of this up. Thanks for posing the question!

Best wishes,

Timon
 
But it did affect the timeline; that guy would have been Zephram Cochrane's great great great Grandfather (on his mother's side), but because he died, someone else was, and that's why he looked and behaved differently in "First Contact" compared to "Metamorphosis".

That would be a predestination paradox--that this man was supposed to be killed because of McCoy's time travel, and that if he hadn't died, THAT would have caused a change in history. Very possible, but only speculation.

Why should some guy killing himself necessarily alter the course of events? Perhaps he was going to die of pneumonia a week later or such.

That would require luck. Not impossible either, given he was living on the streets of NYC in the Great Depression.

And for the record, as someone who lives in NYC, albeit 87 years later, I would guess that it was either late March-late April, or early October-Early November.

Weather here is very seasonal, and I base that on the line "it isn't that cold." Barring an unseasonably warm day, it wouldn't be winter or late fall. Around the times of year I mentioned, the weather tends to be cold, but not so cold that the attire was inappropriate.

I don't know of anything in the episode that indicates summer just finished or is coming soon, so it's hard to speculate beyond that.
 
How could Spock not know what happened to Edith when he had an obituary. Did he not look at the date?
Since the usually extremely precise Spock says it was "some sort of traffic accident," I would say that Spock didn't have time to read the entire article or pinpoint the exact date and time of Keeler's death. He probably only saw the article for the few seconds we see it in the episode. Spock does say, "We're not very sure of our facts."
And Edith wasn't the only person affected. Some guy took McCoy's phaser and killed himself. Interesting how that didn't affect the timeline.
I believe the bum who accidentally disintegrates himself is an artifact of one of the ideas in Harlan Ellison's original script: That just as there are some people who are focal points in time like Edith Keeler, there are also people like the bum, or Ellison's Trooper, who just don't matter in the grand scheme of things. The bum didn't make any big contribution to history, one way or another. Sad, but true.
To start, I found the day in 1930 when Alnitak would be at its highest point at nine at night. It’s the 13th February.
My own best guess is that it’s around the middle of March. Alnitak was highest in the sky at around seven in the evening on March 16th, when Starry Night says it was still too light to see it. By half-past eight it was dark. Alnitak was still about 40 degrees above the horizon, and would be almost directly south-west to anyone looking at it from New York. That means that if Jim and Edith are walking along one of the north-south avenues of the city, Orion (assuming they can see it at all) would be hanging in the sky directly ahead of them. This is by no means the only interpretation you could make, but I think it’s the one I’m least unhappy with.
Fascinating! It never occurred to me to check what constellations might be visible at certain times of the year in Manhattan. Thanks for doing the research!

I'm still leaning towards February, partly because a part of me can't resist the dramatic irony of Kirk losing the love of his life right around Valentine's Day.
 
Since the usually extremely precise Spock says it was "some sort of traffic accident," I would say that Spock didn't have time to read the entire article or pinpoint the exact date and time of Keeler's death. He probably only saw the article for the few seconds we see it in the episode. Spock does say, "We're not very sure of our facts."

It's as good an answer as any, though they could have tweaked the dialogue a little bit to clarify.

I believe the bum who accidentally disintegrates himself is an artifact of one of the ideas in Harlan Ellison's original script: That just as there are some people who are focal points in time like Edith Keeler, there are also people like the bum, or Ellison's Trooper, who just don't matter in the grand scheme of things. The bum didn't make any big contribution to history, one way or another. Sad, but true.

I guess a lot depends on how you view changing history and predestination paradoxes. You kind of don't know until you get back to your own time. If you find things changed, you screwed up. If you don't find things changed, then whatever you did was the result of a predestination paradox. Like Star Trek IV for example.
 
I wouldn't say things aren't changed at all, I'd just say they're changed to such a minor degree that things are essentially indistinguishable.Your quantum signature would probably stand out if you jumped timelines, though it's unclear whether the signature variance has anything to do with the variances in timelines.
 
I believe the bum who accidentally disintegrates himself is an artifact of one of the ideas in Harlan Ellison's original script: That just as there are some people who are focal points in time like Edith Keeler, there are also people like the bum, or Ellison's Trooper, who just don't matter in the grand scheme of things. The bum didn't make any big contribution to history, one way or another. Sad, but true.

Personally, I believe that if you didn't matter, God wouldn't have created you in the first place.

Maybe if McCoy hadn't gone back in time, the homeless man would have slept off his drunkenness that night in the back room McCoy ultimately took refuge in. That would be a nice little bit of loose-end tying...
 
The third meeting of the International Eugenics Congress was held at the American Museum of Natural History in New York City August 22–23, 1932, with Nazi eugenecist Ernst Rüdin in attendance. In our timeline, absent the intervention of Doctor McCoy, the urchin in the alley doesn't phaser himself, and lives to bump into a man who bumps into someone else who stops Rüdin long enough on August 22 to prevent Rüdin from being killed in an elevator accident. Rüdin lives to contribute his own brand of evil to the Second World War we remember, but in McCoy's timeline, he dies, and we get the World War II Spock mentions in "Bread and Circuses", with "only" eleven million casualties, and a eugenics program that survives WW2 to result in the creation of Khan, et al, in the late 1950s-1960s.

So yeah, the urchin counted. ;P
 
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