Exactly WHEN in 1930 does "City on the Edge of Forever" take place?

[Timo]

Great detail there!

Nailing down Kirk's "cold" vs. Keeler's "not that cold" might require delving into the personal histories of the characters. Kirk comes from Iowa (does he live in one of those sky-high arcologies?), but more recently from an air-conditioned starship that mostly visits California lookalikes. Where does Keeler come from? How long has she been assigned to New York?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ronald Held]

The prime universe Clark Gable may have had a different career than ours. Winter 1930 may have been milder than that in our NYC 1930.

 

[Vger23]

Omg... how do we bear these inconsistencies?

Move to decanonize this garbage episode!

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I’m not sure that Edith wouldn’t have known about Clark Gable in 1930. He was in Broadway productions

Interesting theory! I'd wonder if Broadway shows were really in the means of someone running the 21st Street Mission, though.

t’s no real help, but have you considered that the festival on the 14th shown on the calendar is a religious one? My guess would be The Exaltation of the Holy Cross, in September. The calendar would then probably be for 1927. Why it’s still up on the wall is anyone’s guess.

The 14th being a religious holiday seems very likely to me, since it's in red, the same as all Sundays on that calendar. That usually points to a religious holiday.

As far as the weather goes, I’ve not been able to find anything really detailed.

As has been noted elsewhere in this thread, all we really know is that it's cold enough for most people to be wearing winter coats, but not quite cold enough for people to be breaking into Edith Keeler's basement.

If you think all this is going a bit far, it’s nothing compared to the lengths Sherlock Holmes fans go to pin down the details in the stories.

Ain't that the truth! I'm not really to start consulting weather reports and train schedules from the Victorian era quite yet, though...

BTW, if you're a Holmes fan, you may also like my Sherlock Holmes Chronology, seen here (It's still missing a few cases, though): https://www.sutori.com/story/sherlock-holmes-timeline

Where does Keeler come from?

It's never explicitly stated, but considering that Joan Collins was using her normal accent, I'd guess England. So I'd say she was made of hearty stuff when it came to winters.

How long has she been assigned to New York?

Assigned? As far as I know, the 21st Street Mission was a voluntary operation.

The prime universe Clark Gable may have had a different career than ours.

I'm still of the school that says the Eugenics Wars/WWIII were in the 1990s, but rewriting Clark Gable's career to preserve a couple lines of dialogue is a bit farther than I'm willing to go.

Omg... how do we bear these inconsistencies?

Move to decanonize this garbage episode!

Really, it's the only rational solution. Give me the consistency of "The Way To Eden" any day!

 

[plynch]

That ep is set 36 years before it aired, right? If Discovery does a nostalgia ep, that will be like 1981. Maybe that Edith will quote Ringo Starr's "I Can Help" and go see a Kevin Costner film though he isn't a star yet (in our timeline anyway).

 

[JonnyQuest037]

That ep is set 36 years before it aired, right? If Discovery does a nostalgia ep, that will be like 1981. Maybe that Edith will quote Ringo Starr's "I Can Help" and go see a Kevin Costner film though he isn't a star yet (in our timeline anyway).

Well, that's depressing to contemplate.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Ringo Starr's "I Can Help"

Billy Swan's.

 

[Nebusj]

Interesting theory! I'd wonder if Broadway shows were really in the means of someone running the 21st Street Mission, though.

The historical atlas of prices that I have is somewhere hidden in the basement and I don't know if I have the energy to dig it up. But for what it's worth https://www.talkinbroadway.com/bway101/5b.html suggests prices of 25 cents to a dollar for at least some Broadway shows at the time. While money is always tight at places that try to help people live, I doubt many would fault Edith Keeler for keeping a half-dollar for her entertainment each week.

 

[Timo]

Relating to that, and on the "assigned" issue, I always sort of supposed Keeler was involved in a Salvation Army type of organization, bigger than her pretty self (even if not by much). The money had to come from somewhere, after all, and she's not out there personally to swing a bell and beg for people to fill her hat - she's in there personally to stir the pot and clean the beds and whatnot. And as a paid job to boot, since we hear of no other profession of hers.

What would Missions of that sort have been like ITRW?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[F. King Daniel]

Omg... how do we bear these inconsistencies?

Move to decanonize this garbage episode!

This isn't Gene's vision anymore. I'm out.

 

[Push The Button]

Being from Vulcan, Spock would have been freezing his ears off in a New York winter.

 

[Timo]

He does wear nonstandard high collars in "Where No Man" and TMP. OTOH, do Vulcans stay indoors at night? Surely the nights on Vulcan would be freezing, and still "Yesteryear" only shows young Spock and his cousin Selek in those bathrobes without headgear or mittens.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Maurice]

Being from Vulcan, Spock would have been freezing his ears off in a New York winter.

One word: Sarpeidon.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

One word: Sarpeidon.

Ah, yes. The planet that Spock said was "millions of light years" from his home planet.

 

[Tallguy]

Then I'm laying out my winter clothes
And wishing I was gone
Going home
Where the New York City winters
Aren't bleeding me
Leading me
Going home

That's a good point about night temps on Vulcan. Does ENT address this?

 

[Timo]

In "The Forge", Archer goes in saying "I expect it'll be hot" and dresses accordingly. We then get a night scene and he's doing fine in these clothes:

http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/4x07/forge_199.jpg

T'Pol wears even less.

http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/4x07/forge_210.jpg

Nary a comment about the temperature, no shivering or hugging motions (although we were all pining for the latter, weren't we?). So we aren't talking outlandishly cold. The sky that night is cloudless, or rather, probably clouded with the usual uniform red haze we saw the previous day. Perhaps this actually insulates the planet against nighttime heat loss?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Old Trek Guy]

Because plot holes! And it can be cold in May depending on the location and time of day.

 

[Timo]

...Heck, around here, the Midsummer before the last was colder than the Christmas. There have been close calls before and since then, but nobody quite expected that.

It would be pretty natural for New Yorkers to rapidly adapt and don their coats, and for lowlife without clothes closets to come raiding for protective gear at the 21st Street Mission or thereabouts.

What we're missing here is a good analysis of the geometry of this image:

http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x28/cityontheedge_473.jpg

Shatner may be more informed about astronomy than we'd credit him with, knowing to raise his hand that high for the apparent winter scene. Or then he's just pretending to see something peeking over the highrise buildings. Or then it's just stage direction for something that admittedly looks pretty good.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

I'm kind of interested in that image of the woman reading a book over Edith's shoulder. Is that an ad for something?

 

[jimcat]

Hello everyone,

@JonnyQuest037: That’s a very attractive Holmes timeline, and it sticks to the established dates. I’m impressed by the illustrations you’ve selected, and the balance between real events and the stories.

@Timo: Your suggestion about the visibility of Orion in the skies of New York is something I’d not considered at all. I’m definitely going to have to check that now, if only to satisfy my own curiosity.

@Laura Cynthia Chambers: That’s a good suggestion too; I’d not thought what might show up in higher definition. The card in the window is still too blurry to make out even though you get a better look at it later in the scene. I’m afraid I don’t even vaguely recognise it. I am intrigued by the radio in the radio-shop window, because it has a half-readable name plate on the front. Tracking it down might take a while.

Incidentally, if anyone thinks I’m trying to somehow “debunk” “City on the Edge of Forever”, nothing could be further from the truth. Of course it happened in 1930. I am just interested to know how closely the accurate reality of the show matches up with the hazy and sometimes hopelessly off-the-mark version of events found outside it.

Best wishes,
Timon