Evidence of ancient lakes found on Mars
- Thread starter msbae
- Start date
I'm thinking that Mars would still have a thriving environment, with rivers and lakes, were it not for some crazy Martian thinking it would be a good idea to use Martian concert speakers to destroy Martian tornadoes, and thus throwing the whole Martian ecosystem out of whack.
Well its a potentially massive deal isnt it?
OK, its not the mothership, but we would all like to see proof of alien life in our lifetimes.
All Seeing Eye
Admiral
I really couldn't care less if they found bacteria or microbes or anything like that. To me there's no doubt plenty of them out there. The only thing i'll get excited about is finding intelligent life.
With your way of thinking, I'm really not surprised you'd make that assumption.
The fact remains that the genesis of life on any level is one aspect of our ancient history of which which we really have no understanding. How organic self-replication first came about is a mystery, and we don't have enough information to judge how likely it was or with what frequency it might occur elsewhere.
The existence of life of any form on another world---even if it's just a microbe---would be absolutely huge, and would go a *hell* of a long way towards suggesting that intelligent life *could* exist elsewhere even if we never meet them.
All Seeing Eye
Admiral
It doesn't alter the fact I couldn't care less. Finding microbes doesn't interest me because it's not a case of IF but a case of WHEN we find microbes.
Intelligent life on the other hand is a whole other ball park, and it's that ballpark that interests me.
Yeah. I just said I knew you thought in such simplistic terms and tried to explain why doing so was putting the cart before the horse. The likelihood of microbes "eventually" leading to intelligent life may well be far, far higher than the likelihood of microbes forming in the first place. At least we have theories about how the former could happen---we've got pretty much nothing on the latter.
It's not worth an argument, though, so I'm just going to leave it be.
It's not worth an argument, though, so I'm just going to leave it be.
Actually, there is at least one persuasive argument that it's better for us if we *don't* find any extraterrestrial life.
Basically, we can't find anyone else. The question is, why not? If it's because it's exceptionally unlikely for life to develop to our level, then maybe we're okay. But if life develops to our level and then is exceptionally likely to self-destruct before it manages to figure out interstellar colonization....we may have a problem.
Basically, we can't find anyone else. The question is, why not? If it's because it's exceptionally unlikely for life to develop to our level, then maybe we're okay. But if life develops to our level and then is exceptionally likely to self-destruct before it manages to figure out interstellar colonization....we may have a problem.
All Seeing Eye
Admiral
You're assuming I don't understand how much of a breakthrough it would be to discover microbes. I understand that and I understand to scientists and some other that it would be an awesome moment to discover microbes but what you fail to understand is that not everybody gets excited at the same things. Some people enjoy watching football and others couldn't care less about it and in that fashion it's same with everything else. Others may get excited about finding microbes but I will not.
To me finding them is just a matter of time, as far as i'm concerned they're out there ready and waiting, intelligent life however is something else.
Telling me all this is like trying to persuade someone who doesn't enjoy watching football that football is the best sport in the world when that person thinks that basketball is the best sport in the world. Everyone has their own personal preferences.
That's because there's nothing to argue about. Trying to force your opinion on me that finding microbes should be an exciting moment will be a futile attempt and will end in failure.
It has nothing to do with what's exciting, really. It's simple mathematics, that's all.
But if the power of positive thinking can affect probabilities (which, given the Uncertainty Principal, isn't entirely impossible!), then perhaps some of your ideas aren't as bogus as they seem.
That's not science, that's faith. And not the cool, slutty-vampire-slayer kind of Faith, unfortunately. Which is fine; but call it what it is.
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That makes less than no sense - logically the best argument against the existence of extra-terrestrial life is that we currently have no evidence AT ALL that life has ever existed anywhere but here.
If we find microbes, especially in our own solar system, it would imply the universe is in fact full of life, and even if on only 0.001% of planets life becomes intelligent, this would mean thousands of intelligent civilisations. That is a pretty exciting prospect, but meaningless without some evidence of extra-terrestrial life.
I agree that faith is something that you can never really argue with, and your faith in microbes is great, I agree that they are out there somewhere, but in the absence of evidence it is just that, faith, like belief in the Holy Trinity or the Tooth Fairy.
The discovery of microbes on another world would prove that faith to be correct, surely a good thing?
What if they found fossils of Martian fish and other life around the lake bed?
This also has me wondering if the bottom of the lake could potentially be a landing site for a future probe to mars. I realize that good landing sites are hard to come by, but how cool would it be to explore this site?
I honestly don't understand why people think this is news. I remember looking at old Viking pictures back in the 80's in my astronomy class of what was clearly old lake and river beds, with erosion patterns that could never be mistaken for wind/sand storm erosion. Am I missing something here?
All Seeing Eye
Admiral
Oh i'd certainly be interested in fossils of fish, but microbes? nope.
Given that this planet itself has had extinction level events caused by:
An entize continent size section becoming a volcano and sending toxic cloulds around the planet for thousands of years.
A major asteriod strike.
Two major ice ages.
And probably a few major sudden climate shifts. Hell 300 years ago, there was worldwide famine due to a mini ice age caused by a small change in the radiation output of the sun for a few decades.
I'd say the chance of an intelligent civilization 'self destructing' pales in comparison to the fact that nature could wipe it out just as easily.
That's why I laugh when scientists want to believe that the cause of the current climate change conditions is all due to man, and that somehow, man can also stop it; (and while I am by NO MEANS against stopping pollution and using clean energy sources; that's always a good idea regardless of circumstances), I seriously doubt we have the knowledge or technology to 'fix' the climate change. Hell, we don't even have the technology to accurately predict the weather with certainty; yet some crackpots think we know enough to be able to change the climate back to what it was a century ago?
I honestly don't understand why people think this is news. I remember looking at old Viking pictures back in the 80's in my astronomy class of what was clearly old lake and river beds, with erosion patterns that could never be mistaken for wind/sand storm erosion. Am I missing something here?
There is a difference between evidence and conjecture. Looking at photographs and making assumptions based on what you believe instead of what you know is not science. These discoveries are interesting because they offer scientific understanding beyond "well this is what it looks like so that must be what it is". And, in fact, many things accepted as scientific "fact" are counter-intuitive to human intuition. We live on a certain scale of size and time and our brains have evolved on this planet to hunt and gather food and make communities, not analyze the surface details of a planet millions of miles away or the contents of a black hole.
Think of it as one more interesting piece of evidence in the case for water (and possibly by extension) life on Mars.
