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Ever have a change of heart about the films?

Eddie Roth

Commodore
Commodore
Who here has found his original assessment of any of the ten films ever challenged upon repeat viewing, either for better or for worse?

In preparation for the new film, I have watched several of the older Trek films recently, out of sequence, just the ones I felt like watching. Turns out it's nearly all of them by now. And I'm amazed by how my perception of some of these films have changed in the years since last I saw them.

I have already gone on record in the "I like STV" thread that I think TFF actually has a lot to offer for the true and hardcore TOS fan (that I am).

Now today I watched Insurrection, just three days after seeing First Contact. And guess what? I like Insurrection better than FC. I didn't before.

Here's why: Until now, I hadn't fully realized how choppy FC is as a story. Or to put it differently, I now see that First Contact is actually two separate stories that never really intersect much. And that bothers me. The scenes on Earth don't have any urgency regarding the Borg threat. They can't of course because Riker and the others know nothing about the Borg intrusion on board the Enterprise. But this imbalance seriously impairs the flow of the film, IMO. The drama of the Borg invasion keeps getting interrupted by fairly lighthearted scenes of Troi being drunk, Cochrane dancing and drinking, Barclay and Geordi (and Riker, too) fawning over Cochrane's supposed genius. Fluff. Entertaining fluff, but unfortunately combined with another story that wants to go dark and disturbing, thus sabotaging both.

Also, all scenes with the Borg Queen are now like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. The sexual innuendo, the Data-kissing, the whole concept of a Borg Queen doesn't make much sense to me anymore except for the obvious reason Braga and Moore decided they needed a conventional villain to kill off at the end. The originally scary concept of the Borg as a collective mind, a race where no individuals exist - in contrast to the Federation where individuality and diversity were always celebrated - never comes into play, which strikes me as a missed opportunity.

I also feel Jonathan Frakes directorial skills improved significantly between this and Insurrection. In FC, I didn't really feel the scale and the scope that things should have in an apocalyptic scenario like this. The opening space battle suffers from a lack of buildup, too many FX shots and too little reaction from the characters to make the danger palpable. When we join the battle, we only get a brief glimpse at the Defiant and then Picard routinely issues his command to attack the ship upon which it is destroyed. An anticlimax, I'd say. I wonder by the way if uninitiated viewers even got what the Borg were or why they were dangerous based on Picard's dream sequence alone. In this viewing, I found myself desperately wanting an opening sequence in which we actually see the Borg destroy the colony that the Admiral talks about.

I also got the distinct impression that the writers were trying to force the TNG cast into the structure established by the TOS films - two leads resembling the Kirk/Spock duo, with Picard cast as the action hero that he just is not (Kirk could've pulled off the angry man out for vengeance nuch better - cf. the beginning of TUC) and Data acting as a second-rate Spock replacement. It did the cast wrong.

In short, the film feels small, disjointed, lacking scope and tonal coherence. I was amazed by my reevaluation that I didn't even think FC was the best TNG film anymore. I used to. I think I like Insurrection better - which, to be sure, very nearly derails itself by the embarrassing and forced attempts at comedy. But altogether, it had a valid story with a theme, great location visuals (if somewhat flimsy effects work) and a villain whose motivations I could buy. If anything, this reminded me the most of the TV TNG. It's still not a motion picture, but as a new TNG episode it works. Which, as detailed above, I can't say anymore about First Contact.

I wonder if subsequent Star Trek series and films (specifically, the VGR Borg episodes) have shaped my new opinion on these films, FC especially, after so many years. Was I so enamored with that film 13 years ago because at that time the idea alone of seeing the Borg, TNG's most spectacular foe, on the big screen that I tended to overlook all the weaknesses of the film itself that now reveal themselves to me because the Borg have lost their luster due to VGR?

Any of you ever made a similiar discovery when rewatching one of the films after a long time?
 
My opinion on First Contact dropped over time for almost the exact same reasons as yours. I still prefer it to Insurrection, though.

Overall, I find the TNG films to be a disappointment, unfortunately. They're all part of the 'Battle Trek' formula that infected the franchise - that is, there must be a villain, there must be combat, etc etc. It reached critical mass when Picard decides he is Captain Badass in Insurrection and beams over to the Reman warship with a phaser rifle, commando-style.
 
i find that opinions have changed since becoming an adult. as a kid i hated ST TMP. i thought it was long, boring and a waste. as an adult...its still long and lacks action, but i appreciate what they were trying to do.

i didn't think Insurrection was all that great when i watched it in theaters. i still don't think its so great, but i'm not as harsh on it anymore.
 
Star Trek II was always my favorite and is even moreso now. I'm still amazed at how the themes resonate so well, and though it's become vogue with some to bash the film nowadays, I think it's easily one of the best Trek stories and certainly one of the few that is truly multi-layered.
 
I haven't had a 180 on any of the films yet... although my order of preference has shifted a bit from when I was younger.
 
i find that opinions have changed since becoming an adult. as a kid i hated ST TMP. i thought it was long, boring and a waste. as an adult...its still long and lacks action, but i appreciate what they were trying to do.
Same here. While the TMP DE helps fix some of the pacing issues, I probably would have begun to appreciate the film more just simply because my appreciation of film has matured over time.
 
i give full credit to the director's edition of TMP. i hadn't watched the film in years and it was the first Trek movie i purchased on DVD. i had to have them all so i simply started with the first. i watched it, and then watched it with commentary and then watched the special features. i appreciate the movie a lot more.
 
Yes, me too. Although TMP was always special to me. Its design, its solemn pace, was all very different from both TOS and the following films that i appreciated it as something unique if flawed. The DE changed my mind in so far that it then became an actually watchable film.
 
Another thing that didn't annoy me first about FC but does now is the extreme retconning of Zefram Cochrane's character. I think it's the strongest purposeful break of continuity in the Trekverse, and the reasoning behind it didn't make much sense - the script should have been written around the Cochrane we met back in TOS.
 
Another thing that didn't annoy me first about FC but does now is the extreme retconning of Zefram Cochrane's character. I think it's the strongest purposeful break of continuity in the Trekverse, and the reasoning behind it didn't make much sense - the script should have been written around the Cochrane we met back in TOS.

I don't think it should have been Cochrane at all to be perfectly honest. Didn't Riker say that mankind was confined to a single sector of the Galaxy before the development of Warp-drive? The most logical idea I can come up with in terms of historical importance is the Impulse Drive. Not so much that it almost goes the speed of light, but it can make travel to and from the Earth with incredible ease. Nobody ever gives Impulse Power any credit.
 
And yes, First Contact is definitely on my list of films I don't remember too kindly on the way I once did. It just shared too many problems that Generations Had.

WHY STOP FIRST CONTACT?! Why not just transport on Earth and start assimilating? Why travel back in time to First Contact when you could have gone anywhere! Why do the Borg only use their time travel once and never again?

And for god's sake, why do the Borg wish to assimilate everything, but when the perfect subjects come walking down the hallways with phaser rifles with the intent to stop you that you just walk passed them as if nothing bad will happen? This "no threat" rule is so stupid, and it wasn't even the reason why the Borg didn't attack Riker, Data or Worf in "Q Who?"

Riker: They either don't see us or see us as a threat
later
Data: The ship appears to be regenerating. Perhaps THIS is the reason they have not taken note of our presence. Their combined power is being used to repair the ship.

Grr!
 
For me, it's none of the above. I still like FC. Have always liked Insurrection. The one movie that I watched in the theater and liked (for the most part) but now I find pretty unwatchable is Generations. I think it had to do more with really liking TNG throughout it's run, and that fact that it was no longer on TV. So when Generations showed up, I embraced it. But years later, and looking at it for what it is. I can only watch it with a remote to fast forward through the worst parts. Usually means about 45 minutes of viewing time. ;)
 
Star Trek II has always been my favorite film, but it lost something when I realized how preposterous the "two-dimensional thinking" bit was.
 
Star Trek II has always been my favorite film, but it lost something when I realized how preposterous the "two-dimensional thinking" bit was.

Preposterous how?

  • Khan's "two-dimensional thinking" was literal. :rolleyes:
  • Kirk bothered to attack the Reliant from the same plane at the very end of the Mutara Nebula battle. Thus proving Kirk is just as much of a "two-dimensional thinker" as Khan. :rolleyes: Why not attack the Reliant from above or below?
 
My opinion on First Contact dropped over time for almost the exact same reasons as yours. I still prefer it to Insurrection, though.

Overall, I find the TNG films to be a disappointment, unfortunately. They're all part of the 'Battle Trek' formula that infected the franchise - that is, there must be a villain, there must be combat, etc etc. It reached critical mass when Picard decides he is Captain Badass in Insurrection and beams over to the Reman warship with a phaser rifle, commando-style.

hey, cut picard some slack. after all, the planet's rings were emitting rays that gave picard that youthful, rebellious nature
 
^^ But what was his excuse for doing commando-style again at every turn in Nemesis? And why did his phaser rifle break on some Reman's head when Worf used his to smash one of the Son'a drones? :D
 
I'll have to get back to you on this. ;) I have never liked any of the movies that much - even the best ones (that is, the ones I liked best, which I realize is not the same thing) were to me just...pretty good. In fact, I don't visit this forum very often, and this is the reason why.

Mostly I have found all the movies big ol' disappointment - too much mindless action, not enough thinking, not enough plot. But I've been meaning to rewatch some of them, so if this thread is still alive after I do that, I'll let you know!
 
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