Ever been thrown out of a story by a reference?

[The Laughing Vulcan]

With me it happens in Peter David's The Rift.

Every time I get to the Illewdium Pew 36 Explosive Space Modulator, I actually swear at the book.

Some things should stay out of Trek Lit, and one of them is Looney Tunes references.

 

[Cicero]

Yes. References to other franchises (or non-in-universe references to the one I'm reading) almost always throw me out of a story if I notice them.

To my thinking, an outside reference should never exceed the following, written of Alan Ruck's Captain John Harriman:

Son of a respected Federation official. Captain of USS Enterprise-B. Usually confident in dealing with reporters, but on the ship's maiden voyage was having an off day.

I'm a fan of the referents, but the statement works so well in-universe that I didn't notice the references until they were pointed out to me.

 

[OmahaStar]

Yes. References to other franchises (or non-in-universe references to the one I'm reading) almost always throw me out of a story if I notice them.

To my thinking, an outside reference should never exceed the following, written of Alan Ruck's Captain John Harriman:

Son of a respected Federation official. Captain of USS Enterprise-B. Usually confident in dealing with reporters, but on the ship's maiden voyage was having an off day.

I'm a fan of the referents, but the statement works so well in-universe that I didn't notice the references until they were pointed out to me.

Ok, what are the references?

 

[Defcon]

The day off part is a reference to Ferris Bueller's day off, a movie Ruck appeared in and I guess the reporter part is a reference to Ruck playing the chief of staff of the mayor of New York in Spin City.

 

[Steve Roby]

Some things should stay out of Trek Lit, and one of them is Looney Tunes references.

Have you read the Eugenics Wars books? I don't remember any Looney Tunes references, but if you removed all the references to other nonTrek pop culture stuff, you wouldn't have much left at all.

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

With me it happens in Peter David's The Rift.

It happens to me at least once in every Peter David Trek novel I've read. He's written some great stories, but the in-jokes and references get a little much sometimes.

 

[LightningStorm]

The day off part is a reference to Ferris Bueller's day off, a movie Ruck appeared in

Seriously? That's a reference to that? IMnsHO that's a terrible reference because having an "off day" is not the same as having a "day off."

 

[Defcon]

The day off part is a reference to Ferris Bueller's day off, a movie Ruck appeared in

Seriously? That's a reference to that? IMnsHO that's a terrible reference because having an "off day" is not the same as having a "day off."

Maybe I should have phrased my comment differently: I think it is a reference to that, certainly it was the first that came to mind when I read it, but of course that could be just me.

 

[acappellasaurus]

I remember being taken out of the story during my reading of the "A Time To..." series. There was a crewmember on an away mission named Parminder that was described as looking like the actress Parminder Nagra (whom I love). That sort of jolted me out. I do recall other instances, but that one sticks out from the last year or so. I think there were similar things like that in Articles Of The Federation.

 

[Trent Roman]

Yup. Spent half of Immortal Coil wondering who the hell these people were. As for pop culture references, generally they're subtle enough that either you get it, smile a bit and move on, or miss it entirely (in which case it has no affect). Exceptions do occur, like the extended Mos Eisley sequence in Last Few Measures, which was simply too long and too overt, and wound up colouring my perception of those and subsequent scenes with a Star Wars veil. Though, given that our new Kirk is going to be telling us how the Enterprise made the Rigel run in under twelve parsecs, how various difficulties aren't his fault, and calling Elaan of Troyius 'a comittee', perhaps M&M were actually prophetic.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Geoff]

There was a crewmember on an away mission named Parminder that was described as looking like the actress Parminder Nagra (whom I love). That sort of jolted me out.

Well, Parminder is a Sikh name, so it stands to reason that a character with that name would have Indian features. I don't think the author intended any sort of homage to the actress.

Personally, the one Tuckerism that consistently threw me out of the scenes in the A Time To... series was the character T'Bonz. Clever puns make great usernames on TrekBBS, but they make lousy character names in written fiction (unless I'm reading the latest Xanth novel).

 

[KRAD]

I think there were similar things like that in Articles Of The Federation.

Can you be more specific, since I don't recall doing anything like that in Articles......

 

[OmahaStar]

Not necessarily taking me out of the story, but whenever there's a Babylon 5 reference, I always read it more carefully. One example would be the book which had Number One as a shuttle pilot on the Mars run. Unless you're a B5 fan, it's just another character.

 

[Garth Rockett]

I just finished Before Dishonor the other day, and it had one that took me out of the story. Geordi (or someone else, my copy's not handy) notices that the computer's voice reminds him of Troi's mother for some reason he can't put his finger on.

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

Some things should stay out of Trek Lit, and one of them is Looney Tunes references.

Have you read the Eugenics Wars books? I don't remember any Looney Tunes references, but if you removed all the references to other nonTrek pop culture stuff, you wouldn't have much left at all.

Too easy a target. Besides, there's a lot more in those first two books that throw me out of the experience. They aren't my favourite books.

I quite like The Rift though.

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

I just finished Before Dishonor the other day, and it had one that took me out of the story. Geordi (or someone else, my copy's not handy) notices that the computer's voice reminds him of Troi's mother for some reason he can't put his finger on.

I had the same reaction to that line. A similar line in Forged in Fire, in which Sulu thinks of asking Dr Chapel to record her voice-print for the Excelsior computer, pulled me out of the story as well.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I don't see that "being thrown out of a story" is a bad thing. A doorbell ring will throw me out of an all-consuming reading experience moreso than an in-joke. I love in-jokes - and an in-joke I don't discover until week/months/years later is fun, too.

One that is sort of annoying, though, is in Kevin Ryan's two TOS Klingon trilogies: pregnant security officer "Leslie Parrish", named for the Star Trek actress who played Carolyn Palamas in "Who Mourns for Adonais?"

It's impossible for me to visualize this new character as looking like anyone else except a clone of Carolyn Palamas. I guess I'd rather be reading about Carolyn Palamas (who was originally pregnant in the first draft script of "Adonais", a plot development Peter David eventually mines for "New Frontier"), except she probably wouldn't have moved across from historian to security. I guess that we are supposed to accept that, if Ryan's trilogy had been a series of episodes, then Ms Parrish who have played the role, just as many other ST guest actors returned in different roles.

 

[Christopher]

Well, Parminder is a Sikh name, so it stands to reason that a character with that name would have Indian features.

I think it's a Punjabi name, rather. The Sikh religion was founded in the Punjab, so Sikhs tend to have Punjabi names, but there are plenty of Punjabis who are Hindus or Muslims.

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

I don't see that "being thrown out of a story" is a bad thing.

I do. The last thing an author should be doing is reminding the reader that he's reading a novel.

I love in-jokes - and an in-joke I don't discover until week/months/years later is fun, too.

That would explain why you like Peter David's books so much. I've always enjoyed his writing in the past despite his "clever" in-jokes and fan-wank references, not because of them.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

The last thing an author should be doing is reminding the reader that he's reading a novel.

I don't know about that. I've written a story where it's impossible not to be conscious that you are reading a story, and that was a deliberate choice on my part. Some stories function best artistically if they keep their audience off-balance and at some distance.