"Errand of Mercy"....phasers or photon torpedoes?

[gastrof]

I'm watching "Errand of Mercy" on TOSR.

Right at the start, when the lone Klingon ship attacks the Enterprise, Kirk orders PHASERS, but the sound effect and the visual seem to show photon torpedoes being fired.

Anyone care to try and clear this up?

Seems a little strange they'd let something like that slip by.

 

[Shatmandu]

gastrof said:
I'm watching "Errand of Mercy" on TOSR.

Right at the start, when the lone Klingon ship attacks the Enterprise, Kirk orders PHASERS, but the sound effect and the visual seem to show photon torpedoes being fired.

Anyone care to try and clear this up?

Seems a little strange they'd let something like that slip by.

Sulu's a hipster, and torpedoes are hipper than phasers.

Joe, herbert

 

[Maurice]

It seems that they were making a deliberate effort to replicate the pulsed phaser effect from Balance of Terror, right down to the blast patterns.

 

[Broccoli]

DS9Sega said:
It seems that they were making a deliberate effort to replicate the pulsed phaser effect from Balance of Terror, right down to the blast patterns.

Yeah, that is what I thought as well. A reuse from BoT.

I wish we could have seen the two fleets ready to battle, but it was probably better that we didn't (with the, y'know, whole expectation level and all).

 

[wws]

So, did anyone see the remastered episode? I missed it but was hoping for a VFX reel soon.

best wishes,
wws

 

[Relayer]

There's a couple of trailers on youtube. They show Klingon D7s firing what appear to be blue photon torps from the nose of the ship, like a K'tinga. Probably because the FX people don't know that TOS Klingons fire disruptors from the nacelles.
Well, at least TOS Romulans still launch plasma torps.

 

[NCC621]

Or maaybe the FX people noticed that the Klingon ship has a device on the nose of the ship that looks very much like a torpedo tube?

 

[Timo]

Uh, the Klingon weapon of choice in the original "Errand of Mercy" was indeed the photon torpedo.

We just didn't see whether it was a D-7 firing those torpedoes, or perhaps some lesser vessel. Given the great ease by which Kirk killed the Klingon attacker, one would suspect the enemy vessel was a small one, perhaps a Bird of Prey or Raptor or whatever.

Also, one would assume that the Klingon foe in the teaser had a cloaking device. Otherwise, the success of the surprise attack would be rather incomprehensible.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mister_Atoz]

I wish they hadn't shown the first enemy ship to be D7 since Kirk dispatched it with only a few phaser shots. I'd have been satisfied with a “distant blip” or not shown the enemy vessel at all.

It is interesting to note however, the different style of space combat seen in these early episodes than in the later ones and later established Trek. In these early episodes, space combat seems to be more about who sights the other first and who gets the first shot off. This episode is an example of this, Balance of Terrors is another in the final scene where the Enterprise and the bird of Prey finally face off but Kirk shoots first, the Arena is the third example though by this point we see a transition to the style of combat seen later. Later Trek shows us complicated duels with manuvering, shields buckling, etc.

 

[cooleddie74]

Seems like Okuda was trying to be as faithful as possible to the original 1967 optical effects...the impact blasts and all. I know the Klingon D7 was firing torpedoes from its forward tube, but as per the Enterprise I guess the new effects just went along with and duplicated the original opticals which weren't accurate with the dialogue.

 

[Nerroth]

Timo said:
Uh, the Klingon weapon of choice in the original "Errand of Mercy" was indeed the photon torpedo.

Really?


It's been a while since I saw that ep - but if the Klingon ships were shown as using photons, I would have imagined that SVC et al would have given their ships photorps when putting SFB together, rather then disruptors...

...and he's pretty keen on his Klingons, so that is a trick I would be surprised to hear he's missed this long.

(But hey, if there is a direct reference to KLingon photorps in TOS, it would be interesting when pitching Klingon design variants for Fed Commander or SFB!)


Gary

 

[Timo]

Well, the dialogue never establishes what sort of weapons are hitting the Enterprise, but the visuals are of distinct white, round things slamming to the saucer underside - quite unlike the green bolts we later see represent Klingon disruptors.

And since Kirk's ship has two types of weapons, why not give the Klingons that as well? I mean, from a gaming point of view it might suffice for the Klingons to have disruptors and stasis fields, but it would take some explaining why Klingons would lack photon torpedoes when those are so very, very handy...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Lieut. Arex]

Nerroth said:

Timo said:
Uh, the Klingon weapon of choice in the original "Errand of Mercy" was indeed the photon torpedo.

Really?

It's been a while since I saw that ep - but if the Klingon ships were shown as using photons, I would have imagined that SVC et al would have given their ships photorps when putting SFB together, rather then disruptors...

...and he's pretty keen on his Klingons, so that is a trick I would be surprised to hear he's missed this long.

(But hey, if there is a direct reference to KLingon photorps in TOS, it would be interesting when pitching Klingon design variants for Fed Commander or SFB!)


Gary

Yet Klingon ships in SFB bristle with phasers and drones, something Klingons never used in ST or TAS (the major influences on the game along with FJ's work). Cole's ships' armaments owe far more to the McMaster D7 plans than to the show. That's clear from the notes in the back of the original game. Heck, they're also why the Kzinti ended up being drone users.

Based on EoM, EoT, and TAS--where Klingons almost exclusively used photorps--Klolode(D7) class cruisers are armed with disruptors and photon torpedoes, just as the later K't'inga's are, per Kimble's TMP plans.

My dream is to go through my SFC3 shiplist and pull all the drones and phasers off the Klingon ships, giving them only the onscreen disruptors and photorps. Not that they'd have the power to move after that, but...

 

[Nerroth]

Timo said:
Well, the dialogue never establishes what sort of weapons are hitting the Enterprise, but the visuals are of distinct white, round things slamming to the saucer underside - quite unlike the green bolts we later see represent Klingon disruptors.

And since Kirk's ship has two types of weapons, why not give the Klingons that as well? I mean, from a gaming point of view it might suffice for the Klingons to have disruptors and stasis fields, but it would take some explaining why Klingons would lack photon torpedoes when those are so very, very handy...

Timo Saloniemi

As Arex points out, Klingon ships in the SFU have disruptors, drones and phasers (as well as a weapon on certain ships called the Stasis Field Generator). (Kzinti ships - and some Fed and Orion ones - have drones too.)

In-game, the distinction between disruptors and photorps is that disruptors are just over half as powerful per hit, but can fire each turn, whereas photorps can only fire every second turn.

Added to that is the superior turn mode given to the Klingon ships over a Fed ship of the same size class - which makes Fed-Klingon battles a contest between power and finesse.

Lieut. Arex said:
Yet Klingon ships in SFB bristle with phasers and drones, something Klingons never used in ST or TAS (the major influences on the game along with FJ's work). Cole's ships' armaments owe far more to the McMaster D7 plans than to the show. That's clear from the notes in the back of the original game. Heck, they're also why the Kzinti ended up being drone users.

Based on EoM, EoT, and TAS--where Klingons almost exclusively used photorps--Klolode(D7) class cruisers are armed with disruptors and photon torpedoes, just as the later K't'inga's are, per Kimble's TMP plans.

My dream is to go through my SFC3 shiplist and pull all the drones and phasers off the Klingon ships, giving them only the onscreen disruptors and photorps. Not that they'd have the power to move after that, but...

I usually have the opposite dream - to see more of the SFU-style armaments in other Trek-related works! (Not too likely, though...)

You have a point, though - it could be argued that the SFU considers TOS to be a dramatization of the events portrayed, and is more reliant on the Technical Manual...

...and those ever-handy 'Air Force data tapes'!

I may have to go ask at one of the ADB boards, though.



Gary

 

[Vance]

An easy answer to the SFU problem is to just point out that even ships of the same class will vary quite a bit - particularly YEARS after being sent out of the docks.

But, if I'm remembering right, EoM was made (or at least written) BEFORE photon-torpedoes were officially added to Star Trek. Remember, Torpedoes were added because they seemed 'naval' and helped alleviate the 'magic phaser / Flash Gordon Ray Gun (TM)' problem that 1st season had (which GR specifically wanted to avoid).

The only evidence of 'disruptor' use at that time was that that was what the Klingons were using as hand weapons. Off hand, I can't remember any evidence of a D-7 having disruptors by name? Was it in Elaan?

 

[Noname Given]

Vance said:
An easy answer to the SFU problem is to just point out that even ships of the same class will vary quite a bit - particularly YEARS after being sent out of the docks.

But, if I'm remembering right, EoM was made (or at least written) BEFORE photon-torpedoes were officially added to Star Trek. Remember, Torpedoes were added because they seemed 'naval' and helped alleviate the 'magic phaser / Flash Gordon Ray Gun (TM)' problem that 1st season had (which GR specifically wanted to avoid).

The only evidence of 'disruptor' use at that time was that that was what the Klingons were using as hand weapons. Off hand, I can't remember any evidence of a D-7 having disruptors by name? Was it in Elaan?

^^^
Yep, Elaan of Troyius was the one and only time we see a Klingon D7 fire ship-mounted disruptors (one of the best effects done for the sho too, imo - still beats the disruptor bolts we've seen in subsequent Star Trek movies and TV shows).

 

[Electric Coleslaw]

To me that brief battle was more exciting and impressive than any of the other weak battle scenes in TNG and beyond. It was simple and didn’t have all the flying around and those weak sounding phasers. It looked to me like the Enterprise was some massive destroyer firing broad shots like the navy ships of old firing cannons at each other.

 

[Phantassm]

^^Agreed-that was really exciting. Especially how the red-proximity sensor light came on as a warning just before the ship was hit. The sound effects of the torps hitting the hull of the ship was massive and the old girl firing back was equally great. God-I love that ship!

 

[Vance]

Yep, Elaan of Troyius was the one and only time we see a Klingon D7 fire ship-mounted disruptors (one of the best effects done for the sho too, imo - still beats the disruptor bolts we've seen in subsequent Star Trek movies and TV shows).

I remember the shot, but I don't remember if they actually called them disruptors in the episode. I'm sure someone with a more encyclopediac memory can point it out if they did, though.

But we do know, without a doubt, that they never show a Klingon ship firing anything until third season, 'cause there was no model for the Klingon ship until then.

Certainly having nacelle-mounted disruptor emitters and a boom-mounted torpedo launcher isn't exactly contradictory.

 

[Lieut. Arex]

I'm pretty certain the Klingon weapons are never identified in EoT. That they're disruptors would've come from TMoST.

In fact, the only time a Klingon weapon is ID'd is in EoM when Kirk says "Those are Klingon phasers" as we hear the disruptor sound outside.

Now I'm really confused.