Epsilon IX's Destruction

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Vger23, Dec 24, 2017.

  1. Vger23

    Vger23 Commodore Commodore

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    I've often wondered about the destruction / "reduction to data pattern" of E9. As portrayed in TMP, it's not clear what happens. You don't see a bolt fired at it, nor was one mentioned (I guess Branch does say "WE ARE UNDER...ATTACK.")

    It almost looks like the station slowly dissolves as it hits a wall or part of the V'Ger powerfield or something.

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. BigDaveX

    BigDaveX Commander Red Shirt

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    I'd guess one of V'Ger's energy bolts just hit the station off-screen, in-between Branch saying that the station was under attack and Kirk ordering an external view of the station.
     
  3. David cgc

    David cgc Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    I thought there were several bolts hitting the station on the far end in the first shot where we looked down the length of it. At least, that's what I took the pulsing blue lights in the distance to be.
     
  4. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There wasn't a bolt fired at the station, I think it just drifted into V'Ger's "wake" and was consumed gradually.
     
  5. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    I don't think the cloud did that. I think the impact just hit off camera.
     
  6. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    You see the "digitization scan" represented by electrical visual effect consume Epsilon IX, like the scans that consumed the Klingon ships and Ilia, only much bigger. So there's no mysterious dissolve. It's clearly V'ger scanning the station. Plus, in case there's any doubt, the station is seen on Spock's spacewalk.

    The station seems to be encompassed by an energy field.

    Note that no bolt "orb" is fired at Ilia, either. [Meaning: Ilia, the Klingon ships, and Epsilon IX all get different deliveries of the "digitization scan."]
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2017
  7. Galileo7

    Galileo7 Commodore Commodore

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  8. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Actually, she is hit by 'lightning' on the bridge, it comes out of the V'Ger probe.
     
  9. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    True, I misspoke. What I meant was, it wasn't the same sort of thing that hit the Klingon ships. What do we call that? An orb? Something like ball lightening? :shrug:
     
  10. arch101

    arch101 Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah, the E9 scene is a bit TOO abstract. Off to make suggestions in the TMP reedit thread...
     
  11. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    The main problem I have with the scene is the "where is that camera" bit when the cloud shadow rolls over the station. That's what creates any ambiguity.
     
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  12. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The destruction of Epsilon IX is really cool! I love how we see the astronaut trying to outrun being digitised and finally succumbing to its effects, just as the scene changed shots. Also, the "attack" takes much longer, onscreen, than the destruction of 3 Klingon vessels did. There's this sort of odd chime sound, like a mobile of glass shards all clanging together as the station dissolves, which I believe is distinct from the zapping V'GER used on the Klingons. It's a very good question, what's going on with the station. It's not at all clear, from an effects point of view, though as a plot point, Kirk remembers the hypothesis the station commander gives him as Enterprise flies in. It may be that V'GER used an "angry kill" on the Klingons and a "preemptive strike" attack on the station. The difference in effects approaches may well have been entirely narrative, which I suspect they were. It may also be why Enterprises' screens held when it got a V'GER zap...
     
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  13. Farscape One

    Farscape One Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think the reason Epsilon 9 took longer than the Klingon ships is simply because Epsilon 9 was much bigger in size than those 3 ships combined. Takes time to digitize.
     
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  14. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Especially if you're doing two-or-more-pass scanning. :p
     
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  15. Vger23

    Vger23 Commodore Commodore

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    Advanced future technology bro.
     
  16. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored Capital-T Thanos Fieri Moderator

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    Just say it was the feed from a surveillance drone deployed by Epsilon IX once V'Ger began approaching to record and relay the data of their fate back to Earth. It was destroyed a few seconds after Kirk turned off the feed as well once the V'Ger cloud caught up with it. One of its sister drones deployed earlier could have even been responsible for filming the destruction of the Klingons.
     
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  17. Vger23

    Vger23 Commodore Commodore

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    I believe that is the explanation the novel gives for how they are getting the footage of the Klingon battle...so that makes good sense.
     
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  18. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The Klingons are transmitting to their superiors - a simple comms intercept could give Starfleet the Klingon point of view, as shot by cameras on one of their ships.

    It's a two-part problem in the movie. For the first part, the digitizing of a single Klingon ship as portrayed on the Rec Deck screen need not be that of the last of the three. It may be that Kirk is playing the records of the third ship, showing imagery of the destruction of the second, which explains how there can be a V'Gerscape remaining even after the victim ship is gone.

    In the original battle, of course, the V'Gerscape remains after the explicit loss of the third and final ship. Which was a silly editing choice, as a cut to stark static would have been more effective dramatically.

    If we want to claim Starfleet had probes on the scene, it's pretty odd that the Klingons wouldn't notice and destroy them. After all, the camera that records the final loss of the Amar (right past his ultimate disappearance) is located right at the bow of the Amar! Any "probe" there would be rubbing on the Klingon foreheads the wrong way.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  19. David cgc

    David cgc Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    There isn't necessarily a "camera" per se. It's been pretty explicit that what we see on a viewscreen is a computer reconstruction and not an actual photograph from the specific point of view of an actual device. Look at TVH, where Gillian asks, pretty reasonably, how they can be getting ariel photography from within a mile of a whaling ship when they're far enough away that the curve of the Earth should prevent them from seeing it at all. Or the first episode of Discovery, when the Klingon beacon is jammed when they try to look "magnify" it on the viewscreen, but is perfectly visible to an optical telescope pointed out a window.

    The sensor done could've been well out of range of the battle, and presented it's 3D, full-environment reconstruction from that perspective on 2D screens for any number of reasons. Maybe it was using a Klingon feed there as a primary source, and continued to show use that POV because there wasn't any better perspective to show what wasn't going on anymore.
     
  20. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If synthetic, the image could of course also be fictional. That is, once the Klingon feed ends, the viewscreen would persist with what it knows, no matter that it might not reflect the ongoing reality accurately.

    I mean, it's not even "live feed", real or fake. It's just a static image, from the point of Klingon or Epsilon 9 destruction on.

    Timo Saloniemi