Spoilers Episode 7 Preview Pictures and Synopsis
- Thread starter Tuskin38
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If her friend from the academy is already captain, how old is Mariner?
We have no real limit there: the record for making captain or Captain from "Conspiracy" may well have been broken by the 2380s.
Perhaps the two didn't share a year class, or even a species, and Ramsey is in fact much more mature than Mariner? But even if both are of same age and entry date, Ramsey could have gained her fourth pip at 25 for all we know, while Mariner lost her second at 22. And again at 23, and 24, and now 25...
Timo Saloniemi
Perhaps the two didn't share a year class, or even a species, and Ramsey is in fact much more mature than Mariner? But even if both are of same age and entry date, Ramsey could have gained her fourth pip at 25 for all we know, while Mariner lost her second at 22. And again at 23, and 24, and now 25...
Timo Saloniemi
Riker was offered the Drake in 2364, 7 years after graduating. So Mariner and her friend COULD be 27-29 depending on whether they entered the Academy at 16 or 18 and assuming the standard 4-year education (could Starfleet have dropped it to 2-3 years due to the Dominion War?)...
Suppposedly Riker didn't break any records there, though. I mean, he would have if he could have - so Tryla Scott had apparently done better already.
And the Academy taking four years isn't something we could count on, when we hear of other lengths in all sorts of contexts, with or without extra comment (Merrick took five, say, this supposedly not counting against him). Entry age requirements are all across the map, too: Wes Crusher could try at 15, although probably in an extra-demanding underage quota for his species.
So the bottom line is that everything is possible, including Mariner and Ramsey both being fairly old already, or both still being under twenty and famed for their crazy prowess even if Ramsey is famed more. But the plot wouldn't seem to require extremes either way.
Timo Saloniemi
And the Academy taking four years isn't something we could count on, when we hear of other lengths in all sorts of contexts, with or without extra comment (Merrick took five, say, this supposedly not counting against him). Entry age requirements are all across the map, too: Wes Crusher could try at 15, although probably in an extra-demanding underage quota for his species.
So the bottom line is that everything is possible, including Mariner and Ramsey both being fairly old already, or both still being under twenty and famed for their crazy prowess even if Ramsey is famed more. But the plot wouldn't seem to require extremes either way.
Timo Saloniemi
Riker was a meteoric rising Commander when he hit the Enterprise and slowed down to a crawl. However, this is post Dominion War and presumably they promoted a lot more people during that due to the vastly increased size of Starfleet.
It was previously stated that she was "about the same age" as Boimler, who we know graduated the Academy in 2379. It's a bit of a discrepancy, given her loads of experience vs. his, and I suggested that she may be a couple years older, may have graduated early, served in an Acting capacity as a teenager, and might be counting her childhood adventures on her parents' ships.
Now that we know she has a friend who is Captain, I think the answer to the discrepancy is much more clearer: Boimler is older. Just because he graduated in 2379, doesn't mean he was ~22 years old. I've noticed that the date means he would've signed up in 2375, when the Breen were attacking California. A good motive for a career change for a man, perhaps in his mid-20s who had never left Earth.
This does solidify that Mariner is likely a Dominion War vet.
Now that we know she has a friend who is Captain, I think the answer to the discrepancy is much more clearer: Boimler is older. Just because he graduated in 2379, doesn't mean he was ~22 years old. I've noticed that the date means he would've signed up in 2375, when the Breen were attacking California. A good motive for a career change for a man, perhaps in his mid-20s who had never left Earth.
This does solidify that Mariner is likely a Dominion War vet.
Most Starfleet personnel in 2380 probably are, even if LDS shows a lot of youngsters. How many actually fought is a different matter: we hear of entire Fleets being held defensively close to Earth, perhaps never budging and never exchanging a shot.
Well, not meteoric enough, as he apparently never beat Tryla Scott or mention of this would have been made. Which is my point in saying that Riker is not a particularly informative comparison point.
Why would Starfleet grow? It's already way too small for its duties in peacetime (that is, in the 2360s when it is only at war with a dozen enemies or so). It thus apparently can't grow even though it very much wants to.
We see no evidence of shipbuilding, that is, no examples of ships built during the war - all have registries well below prewar ones. This would certainly be odd if there were a surge of ships, as absence of evidence almost invariably is solid evidence of absence.
We also see no evidence of frantic enlisting, no characters identified as raw conscripts, not even promotions of characters directly associated with the war. At most, we may see Nog pushed through officer training a bit faster than standard, but even this is disputable: perhaps he simply shone, or got it easy due to the Ferengi quota, or whatever?
Should we perhaps think that the fact that LDS gives us exclusively "TNG-style" ships rather than Excelsiors or Mirandas is due to there having been frantic wartime construction that only ever bore fruit after the war? But even this is not growth, if the result is the retiring of the Excelsiors and Mirandas at long last.
Timo Saloniemi
Well, not meteoric enough, as he apparently never beat Tryla Scott or mention of this would have been made. Which is my point in saying that Riker is not a particularly informative comparison point.
Why would Starfleet grow? It's already way too small for its duties in peacetime (that is, in the 2360s when it is only at war with a dozen enemies or so). It thus apparently can't grow even though it very much wants to.
We see no evidence of shipbuilding, that is, no examples of ships built during the war - all have registries well below prewar ones. This would certainly be odd if there were a surge of ships, as absence of evidence almost invariably is solid evidence of absence.
We also see no evidence of frantic enlisting, no characters identified as raw conscripts, not even promotions of characters directly associated with the war. At most, we may see Nog pushed through officer training a bit faster than standard, but even this is disputable: perhaps he simply shone, or got it easy due to the Ferengi quota, or whatever?
Should we perhaps think that the fact that LDS gives us exclusively "TNG-style" ships rather than Excelsiors or Mirandas is due to there having been frantic wartime construction that only ever bore fruit after the war? But even this is not growth, if the result is the retiring of the Excelsiors and Mirandas at long last.
Timo Saloniemi
I thought it as Sting from the WCW.
Because they were vastly underdefended when the Borg attacked.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/97/DefiantDS9.jpg/220px-DefiantDS9.jpg
Ben Sisko was canonically also building the massive new number of Starfleet vessels at Mars that they constructed pre-Dominion War as his job before Deep Space Nine. The Defiant was his design and explictly made as part of the military upgrade. The Intrepid class was also a new creation of Starfleet during the post-Borg era.
Why do you feel conscripts would be necessary versus just allowing more people into Starfleet? The issue is hulls not people.
Wesley was one of 4 candidates taken from 4 SECTORS of space in his episode.
It depends whether Riker would have beaten her IF he'd accepted the Drake. He didn't, ergo, she won. If Usain Bolt and you race and he stops still just before the finish line, you "won", regardless of whether you were trailing by several seconds until he stopped.
There's mention elsewhere that Riker set himself a goal of captaincy by age 35, and that wasn't viewed as unambitious. And yet he was getting the chair pulled out for him at age 29. If not meteoric, he's certainly likely to kill a few dinosaurs.
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