Enlisted crewmen and academy graduates...

[Hoshi_Mayweather]

A little thread in one of the other boards prompted me to ask this question:

What is the difference between enlisted crewmen (like Miles O'Brien) and academy graduates?

From my vague knowledge of the military, I'm gathering that enlisted men or women don't exactly go through the academy...but are posted on ships as low ranking officers (Chief Petty Officers, Ensigns). Academy graduates (like Kirk, or even Bashir(?) graduate as Lieutenants...Doctors...and such...

Can someone elaborate...? Am I on the right track?

 

[-Brett-]

Ensign is an officer rank, not enlisted. Although in Star Trek there doesn't seem to be much difference between a junior officer and enlisted dude.

I don't have a great understanding of it either. What you said sounds about right, though.

I'm sure someone who knows more about real navies will come along. But keep in mind it may not be applicable to Star Trek. The writers seem to have only a vague knowledge of the millitary as well.

 

[Annorax]

Not quite. Enlisted crewpeople don't go through the Academy, but rather have shorter training programs that don't involve leadership training. That gets saved for later in their careers when they reach noncommissioned officer ranks and supervisory positions. O'Brien was an enlisted technician for a very long time (think 20+ years) and got his position as DS9's chief of operations based on his ability to do the job. Starfleet differs from real-world militaries in that it's more willing to put junior officers under the command of NCOs in actual postings outside the Academy and training situations. The ensigns and lieutenants in his department take orders from him because Sisko and Starfleet Command have told them to (and because they want to learn from him), not because of rank. This may be because of Gene Roddenberry's vision of a space service where literally all jobs required so much education that most, if not all, of a starship's crew would need college degrees to know how to do their jobs right. In the real world, military jobs requiring college education are usually reserved for officers. This is why there were never any enlisted people shown on TOS — they just wouldn't have the education necessary to qualify for a job on a starship.

Academy graduates like Kirk come out of the Academy, for the most part graduating and becoming ensigns. They spend their time at the Academy learning to do whatever they specialize in and learning about managing and leading enlisted people and junior officers.

In the real world, doctors, lawyers, and other professions that require very long periods of college training and advanced degrees are commissioned through direct commissioning programs that put the recruits through specialized training to learn what they'll need to continue their profession in the military. They generally start out at higher ranks than ensign because the time they spent in college is treated somewhat like they'd been on active duty or in military training. Starfleet can be presumed to have a program like this for doctors because Bashir was a lieutenant jg when he arrived at his first posting out of medical school, DS9.

 

[Hoshi_Mayweather]

Not quite. Enlisted crewpeople don't go through the Academy, but rather have shorter training programs that don't involve leadership training. That gets saved for later in their careers when they reach noncommissioned officer ranks and supervisory positions. O'Brien was an enlisted technician for a very long time (think 20+ years) and got his position as DS9's chief of operations based on his ability to do the job. Starfleet differs from real-world militaries in that it's more willing to put junior officers under the command of NCOs in actual postings outside the Academy and training situations. The ensigns and lieutenants in his department take orders from him because Sisko and Starfleet Command have told them to (and because they want to learn from him), not because of rank.

Academy graduates like Kirk come out of the Academy, for the most part graduating and becoming ensigns. They spend their time at the Academy learning to do whatever they specialize in and learning about managing and leading enlisted people and junior officers.

In the real world, doctors, lawyers, and other professions that require very long periods of college training and advanced degrees are commissioned through direct commissioning programs that put the recruits through specialized training to learn what they'll need to continue their profession in the military. They generally start out at higher ranks than ensign because the time they spent in college is treated somewhat like they'd been on active duty or in military training. Starfleet can be presumed to have a program like this for doctors because Bashir was a lieutenant jg when he arrived at his first posting out of medical school, DS9.

Does this answer your question?

Yes, tks Annorex...

Tks, for your answer as well, -Brett-