Encounter at Farpoint WI: Q doesn't appear

[USS Fardell]

What if Q decides for some reason that the Enterprise crew would solve the Farpoint mystery without his interference, and instead decides to test them at a later date?

What affect does this have on the solving of the Farpoint mystery?

What affect does this have later in this timeline?

When will Q appear? And what affect will his appearance have in that instance?

 

[Timo]

Probably the mystery will be solved quite on schedule, or even slightly faster as Q doesn't delay the arrival of the ship in the first place. And Picard may react more quickly to the space jellyfish's volleys towards the Bandi city when Q isn't pestering him about it. It's not as if Q had any other practical effect on the events.

However, if Starfleet doesn't learn about Q at this point, it may be that Picard is in fact allowed to embark on that "journey into unknown" that he was supposed to perform after Farpoint. It seems the mission was scrapped there and then, as Picard is subsequently seen loitering in known Federation space for most of the following seven seasons. And it seems the logical reason to scrap the mission was the threat of Q, which Starfleet apparently took seriously.

Who knows what Picard might have found if allowed to go beyond Deneb? Perhaps something even scarier than the Borg. Q would probably decide to make his appearance just before Picard was about to make contact with these bogeymen, then.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Christopher]

It would've had no effect at all. Keep in mind that D. C. Fontana originally wrote "Farpoint" as a 90-minute pilot, and Q wasn't in it at all. When the decision was made to expand it to 2 hours, Roddenberry added the Q subplot as padding. And it shows. Q doesn't really have any effect on the Farpoint story aside from occasionally dropping in to kibitz and threaten.

As for what followed, I don't agree that the mission into "the great uncharted mass of the galaxy" was scrapped on account of Q. The idea was that Farpoint Station would be the anchor for that effort to thrust beyond Deneb, the command and supply base for the ships going out there. The Bandi's ability to build and operate that station themselves was the linchpin of that effort, since Deneb is far enough that it would be difficult for Starfleet to build and operate the station itself. Once the station, err, went away, the Bandi had no means to build another, so that pretty much scuttled the project.

Also, in the next few years, the emerging threats from the Romulans and Borg led Starfleet to concentrate more on defense, and then more so as other conflicts arose. So what might have been a temporary setback in the exploration effort became more extended.

 

[Timo]

Ah, good points about the loss of Farpoint (although I don't think it would have much affected the mission of this single ship, at least not the first few years of it) and the Romulan threat.

I wonder what Starfleet's instructions to the E-D were after "EaF". "Jean-Luc, just hang in there until you get news of a crisis, say, Ferengi thieves or mining accidents or diplomatic shuttle missions."

It's not as if the ship had any obvious mission until well into the first season, besides standing by; "Datalore" seems the first time she did something scheduled and planned, and "Home Soil" was the second time, after which we had "Arsenal of Freedom" - all of these of the "Boldly go where others have gone before" type. But admittedly, the ship was probably still undergoing a shakedown, part of which would include the "Where No One" engine tinkering and the "11001001" computer upgrades.

Okay, so "Justice" had that colonization mission, which sounded like a big deal and perhaps even was "the" deal for the first year of operations. "Symbiosis" seemed to be the only time they were really exploring anything at all.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

If Q hadn't been in that pilot episode, the show would've lost enormously. I mean, think about what it gained from Q's presence there.

If anything, the show wouldn't have had the excellent series finale, which harkens back to this pilot episode, bringing everything full circle.

 

[Christopher]

If Q hadn't been in that pilot episode, the show would've lost enormously. I mean, think about what it gained from Q's presence there.

I dunno about that. The only thing that makes Q work is John DeLancie's delightfully obnoxious performance. Conceptually, Q was just Roddenberry dusting off the hackneyed old Godlike Superbeing Testing Humanity plot for the umpteenth time. And not even doing it with as much skill as he once would have, because it was not so much an engaging story in its own right as a vehicle for Roddenberry to preachify about the perfectability of humankind.

And the whole idea of a magical imp who can do anything with a snap of his fingers is just so silly. And oddly contradictory, given Roddenberry's professed commitment to scientific credibility.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Really, though, would the pilot have been half as interesting if Q hadn't been there? The pilot owes to Q more than one would realize. Take Q out of the pilot, and the show is pretty average, save the fun introductions to the cast.

 

[Christopher]

Really, though, would the pilot have been half as interesting if Q hadn't been there? The pilot owes to Q more than one would realize. Take Q out of the pilot, and the show is pretty average, save the fun introductions to the cast.

I find the whole "humanity on trial" stuff to be the least interesting part of "Farpoint," because it's so been-there-done-that and so preachy. It also wasn't very well integrated. Okay, they wanted the pilot to show how humanity had improved? Then make that relevant to the story of Farpoint Station. Have the characters discover the truth about how the station was created and be forced to choose between their own self-interest and the well-being of another creature. Give the station some greater importance than just a launching point for exploration, make it something that Starfleet has a serious need for so that there'd be a real ethical dilemma involved. (Maybe the creature was the only source of some vital medicine or material.) Maybe have the star-jelly creatures themselves be the ones to confront humanity and challenge them to live up to their high-sounding words. Tell a story that actually shows how humanity has improved rather than just tacking a bunch of speeches onto a story that has nothing to do with that theme.

I mean, the whole conceit of Q testing humanity's worth with the Farpoint mission doesn't work very well, because the only role he plays in the climax, aside from making pointless proclamations, is to arbitrarily limit Picard's ability to act when it's already clear that he's going to help the creature. And that doesn't have any significant effect on the outcome anyway. Whereas the fundamental decency of Picard and his crew is so thoroughly established from the get-go, and the ethical situation so clear-cut, that there's no doubt what will happen, and so Q's barbs about our barbarism just make him sound bigoted and childish. If it had been the creatures themselves questioning humanity's advancement, holding us culpable for our complicity in the confinement and torture of one of their own, then there would've been something really at stake. The beings we would've had to convince of our good nature would've had legitimate reason to doubt it, rather than just being hecklers from the sidelines.

So as fun as DeLancie was to watch, I think "Farpoint" would've been a better episode wihout Q.

 

[CaptainJon]

If you were to remove Q from every shot in the movie, you'd find that the plot wouldn't really change at all. The Q plot was indeed padding and had no affect on the main plot of the episode. I think the whole "humanity on trial" only gains more credibility and dramatic effect because of the way Braga & Moore cleverly used it in to bookend the series in "All Good Things". Otherwise, here it was just something to add an extra 30 minutes and an excuse to introduce the saucer separation.

 

[Christopher]

One thing I notice when comparing "Farpoint" to later Q stories is a tendency I've seen elsewhere in SF: a tendency to magnify the powers of superbeings in subsequent appearances. In "Farpoint," the Q apparently needed some form of propulsion to get around, with their forcefield turning into a sphere that pursued the Enterprise across space. The episode also gave the impression that the reason the Q had noticed us now instead of earlier was that we'd only just intruded into their territory. All in all, the impression was that they were powerful but still finite. But they were elevated by subsequent writers into omnipotent, universe-spanning, essentially godlike beings, so that in retrospect the use of the "pursuit sphere" seems like Q was just toying with Picard.

Another place I've seen this was on Stargate. When the Ascended being Oma Desala was introduced, she was shown as an energy being that could control the weather at will, very powerful to be sure, but she still needed to use the Stargate for interstellar travel. So Ascended beings were also initially portrayed as finite. But later, they were capable of instantaneous travel anywhere in the cosmos, just as godlike in their powers as the Q became.

And then there's Trelane. In "The Squire of Gothos," he had very limited powers; he needed a machine to amplify them, and aside from moving the planet around, he did nothing that couldn't be done with holodecks, replicators, and a really powerful sensor array (but one oddly limited to the speed of light). And yet fans have perennially interpreted him as being just as omnipotent as the Q, even to the point of assuming he was one. I've even seen "Arena"'s Metrons interpreted as all-powerful energy beings, although there was no indication in the episode that they were incorporeal. There just seems to be a tendency, among fans and TV writers alike, to assume that all beings more powerful than us are arbitrarily powerful, with no hierarchy being recognized.

Personally I think godlike beings aren't all that interesting an idea. I'd rather see superhuman species portrayed with more plausibility and restraint, rather than defaulting to godlike, magical powers. Characters with limits are generally more interesting.

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

Personally I think godlike beings aren't all that interesting an idea.

I would have to agree with that. While I have enjoyed the Q episodes--as you say, mostly for DeLancie's performance--I found the idea of the Q being omnipotent to not be all that engaging. In fact, this is one of the reasons I really grew tired of Q stories after a while.

And the whole "Trelane is a Q" thing never really rang true for me either. It sounds good only on a superficial level, but doesn't hold up upon close examination of The Squire of Gothos. I mostly see it as a symptom of the "small universe syndrome" that fans (and some Trek authors) fall into, where everyone knows each other and everything is connected.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

And the whole "Trelane is a Q" thing never really rang true for me either. It sounds good only on a superficial level, but doesn't hold up upon close examination of The Squire of Gothos.

Sure it does!

Alright, I'm biased, cause I love "Q-Squared" a lot. But I always saw a connection between Trelane and Q, before that said novel was ever presented to me.

 

[Christopher]

The only thing Trelane and Q have in common is personality. Q doesn't need machines to accomplish his feats. The things he manifests are not mere visual illusions with no substance. Most of all, "The Q and the Grey" established that Q don't procreate as a rule, so the fact that Trelane was a child with parents should make it crystal-clear that he's not a Q. Heck, even the child Q from "Q2" was more powerful by himself than Trelane was with machine assistance.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

The only thing Trelane and Q have in common is personality. Q doesn't need machines to accomplish his feats. The things he manifests are not mere visual illusions with no substance. Most of all, "The Q and the Grey" established that Q don't procreate as a rule, so the fact that Trelane was a child with parents should make it crystal-clear that he's not a Q. Heck, even the child Q from "Q2" was more powerful by himself than Trelane was with machine assistance.

I don't care, personally, for the rules that VOY set, and since I get a lot of joy from reading "Q-Squared", much more than I get from watching the entirety of VOY.

Besides, the book firmly establishes Trelane as a handicapped Q. And a child Q could be so for a very long time - whose to say that he's not 10000 years old?

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

Besides, the book firmly establishes Trelane as a handicapped Q. And a child Q could be so for a very long time - whose to say that he's not 10000 years old?

Which Peter David had to do to explain why Trelane's powers didn't resemble those established for the Q. That is, since the two didn't really fit together he made them fit together. As portrayed in The Squire of Gothos he doesn't really fit the bill for a Q much at all.

 

[Christopher]

^^Quite so. Just in general, I'm no fan of small-universe syndrome. If the galaxy is home to the thousands of different humanoid species we've seen in Trek, why would it not have a similarly huge number of different, unrelated incorporeal or transdimensional species? Why this desire to use every superficial similarity as an excuse to say that two entities are directly related or one and the same, and thereby reduce the diversity of the Trek universe? I don't see the appeal in that.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Look, its your opinion that Trelane doesn't fit the bill as a Q. I disagree, and not unreasonably so.

For me, Trelane is a Q, and thats not really a bad thing.

 

[USS Fardell]

Probably the mystery will be solved quite on schedule, or even slightly faster as Q doesn't delay the arrival of the ship in the first place. And Picard may react more quickly to the space jellyfish's volleys towards the Bandi city when Q isn't pestering him about it. It's not as if Q had any other practical effect on the events.

However, if Starfleet doesn't learn about Q at this point, it may be that Picard is in fact allowed to embark on that "journey into unknown" that he was supposed to perform after Farpoint. It seems the mission was scrapped there and then, as Picard is subsequently seen loitering in known Federation space for most of the following seven seasons. And it seems the logical reason to scrap the mission was the threat of Q, which Starfleet apparently took seriously.

Who knows what Picard might have found if allowed to go beyond Deneb? Perhaps something even scarier than the Borg. Q would probably decide to make his appearance just before Picard was about to make contact with these bogeymen, then.

Timo Saloniemi

It is unlikely that the Enterprise goes beyond Deneb because it was anticipated that that mission would go ahead with Farpoint as a support base, without Farpoint there the mission cannot go ahead, and the Enterprise would still be recalled to Federation space. As for Q, I am still not sure when he would show up.

 

[GalaxyX]

Whatever you guys may think, Q is what saved TNG. I remember watching that episode and thinking how trite and boring it was until the Q shows up, then it becomes far more interesting and worthy of watching.

I do admit John De Lancie's acting plays a huge part in it though.

 

[Timo]

For me, Trelane is a Q, and thats not really a bad thing.

Agree on your right to hold these opinions - strongly disagree on both of the issues themselves. :thumbsup:

On screen, Trelane bears about as much resemblance to Q as Kirk does to an Excalbian. Would it serve a dramatic point to suggest that Kirk is an Excalbian? Perhaps. But the motivation doesn't seem to be there to make this leap of logic, not until the piece of drama is written where Kirk-as-Excalbian results in audience enjoyment. Perhaps the story where Trelane was Q provided exactly such enjoyment...?

I think Christopher's point about the lack of "hierarchy" for nonhuman aliens is a good one. Let's not oversimplify things just because they appear alien. Simplicity is seldom conductive of good drama. (Unless it's deliberate symbolism, which one could argue 99% of Trek is.)

Timo Saloniemi