EMH Mark 1

[Rom's Sehlat]

I just watched "Lifeline" where they said all the EMH Mark 1s had been reassigned to scrub plasma manifolds or whatever. Remember earlier in Voyager where they had a run-in with a murderous hologram who was designed for the dangerous/boring/toxic job? It was akin to the plasma manifolds.

How would Starfleet avoid the insanity in the holograms? Sure, on SF's ships plasma manifold duty wouldn't kill anybody, but it's the boring, "shoveling-poop-in-Antarctica" job that'll make any poorly-behaving misfit go crazy.

 

[Supernuke]

I think the point is that Starfleet sees them as tools to be used, instead of as people. If they were to go crazy, they would probably just sees it as another malfunctioning outdated program and replace it. The crazies would only be one out of a whole bunch of them.

 

[SchwEnt]

Starfleet isn't really on the ball with holo-technology anyway. Holodecks have proven to be virtual deathtraps yet they have no problem keeping them around.

And the whole idea of holograms scrubbing plasma manifolds (24th c. shit-shoveling) seems iffy to me.

Okay maybe it's like a glorified Roomba of the future.
But hologram technology akin to The Doctor appeared to be high-end, state-of-the-art tech for Starfleet, certainly not cheap mass-produced labor.

To use holograms like that for basic menial labor is overkill. Isn't there a better way to perform simple tasks without using the latest holographic tech? Like using a Cray supercomputer to do simple calculator arithmetic?

Or maybe the economics of the future mean limitless cost and energy and technology can be thrown at any problem, no matter how small.

 

[Rom's Sehlat]

Perhaps the economics of the future is well-set and can provide for every person in the Federation, but they can't apply that very well to defense spending...

 

[Guy Gardener]

Every one is alphaclass. They have unfounded standards. It was covered in Brave New World (It's called a book. In my day, TV was called Books.) that human beings were designed in strata's with precise imperfections that everyone, from Superman to Quasimodo, would be happy with their lot in life and afraid to risk being burdened with the responsibilities of ascending into a higher class of humanity.

Bashir's dad was basically a fuck up but still look at his choices in occupation. He was desinging Parks on spec for no one in particular. Masturbating practically.

The Federation needs a slave class (Who do you think makes your shoes?), or even a b-class to continue on. It'd seem that the Federation have replaced a social class system, as well as some any sort of nazi like spectrum of ultra to sub human rewards vs. penalties, even though they've been successful with their philosophy of self improvement as well as near magic like technology intune with infinite energy resources that any one person has the resources of a field of 20th century factories.

Crays are really old.

Unless new Cray models are still being made each year?

It can't be too long till the first models are shit.

I gave my kid an Apple computer from the 80s. It had a cute "bowling" game on it. His mother threw it out because the green screen was embarrassing.

 

[Lord Manitou]

The HD 25 isomorph was another instance where a salient lifeform handling salient technology became stupid. They thought-up (or there machines did) a nice A.I. for the worker isomorph droid, but couldn't get to base-2 with it's psychology. What happened there is what always happens. Starfleet also tries to get along with dumb or 'hotshot' unuseable programming.
Most officers and crew are happy with the reality that their cyberpartners make them unhappy or they are unhappy with happy cyberpartners. Whichever is the case, if Voyagers senior officers did not enforce the order to be happy with the happy EMH doctor, its ideology never would have existed.
The question of how is rather technical. A good example is Bishop of the 'Aliens' movie. This guy had a social profile- you couldn't tell if he was a robot physically or mentally or psychologically but the crew regarded him as some low base lifeform. Why bring the technology further than that?

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Remove all personality software, intelligence, etc and have it just as a mindless tool. It doesn't need to be anything else, after all they aren't sentient.

 

[Saturn0660]

Starfleet isn't really on the ball with holo-technology anyway. Holodecks have proven to be virtual deathtraps yet they have no problem keeping them around.

And the whole idea of holograms scrubbing plasma manifolds (24th c. shit-shoveling) seems iffy to me.

Okay maybe it's like a glorified Roomba of the future.
But hologram technology akin to The Doctor appeared to be high-end, state-of-the-art tech for Starfleet, certainly not cheap mass-produced labor.

To use holograms like that for basic menial labor is overkill. Isn't there a better way to perform simple tasks without using the latest holographic tech? Like using a Cray supercomputer to do simple calculator arithmetic?

Or maybe the economics of the future mean limitless cost and energy and technology can be thrown at any problem, no matter how small.

Shit son, your iPhone has more power then Cray.. You're 25 years to out of date.

In todays terms it's like using an i7 for basic math.

 

[Distorted Humor]

Starfleet isn't really on the ball with holo-technology anyway. Holodecks have proven to be virtual deathtraps yet they have no problem keeping them around.

And the whole idea of holograms scrubbing plasma manifolds (24th c. shit-shoveling) seems iffy to me.

Okay maybe it's like a glorified Roomba of the future.
But hologram technology akin to The Doctor appeared to be high-end, state-of-the-art tech for Starfleet, certainly not cheap mass-produced labor.

To use holograms like that for basic menial labor is overkill. Isn't there a better way to perform simple tasks without using the latest holographic tech? Like using a Cray supercomputer to do simple calculator arithmetic?

Or maybe the economics of the future mean limitless cost and energy and technology can be thrown at any problem, no matter how small.

Shit son, your iPhone has more power then Cray.. You're 25 years to out of date.

In todays terms it's like using an i7 for basic math.

To be fair, Cray Supercomputer is still making supercomputers, just happens to be based on mass produced technology.

Starfleet and the federation has some issues with AI, as they can never figure out what the rights are. It could very well be that there is a standing order that you cannot delete them, till the legal process is finished, they don't want them as doctors due to personality issues, and they won't let them mine due to the unions saying heck no. So they the job no one wants.

 

[Bonzo the Fifth]

Remove all personality software, intelligence, etc and have it just as a mindless tool. It doesn't need to be anything else, after all they aren't sentient.

I don't think that's a very productive row to hoe, there, since there's no way to say that the EMH's (or any AI) aren't sentient without either A) conceding that WE aren't sentient (in which case, what the hell does sentient even mean, anyway), or B) Appealing to some anthropocentric pseudomystical appeal to authority that, frankly, has no place in this forum.

That being said, if they are consigned to using the EMH-1's for menial tasks, you'd think they'd have come up with a better solution than asteroid duty. Don't they already have robots (like the Exocomps) for that sort of work?

Though I could see the application in dangerous environments, where even 'expensive' equipment might be seen as too much or a risk to deploy, since holograms come with no material risk, as long as the mainframe the programs are stored on is somewhere relatively safe and free from damage, the holoprograms can do anything and go anywhere in the range of their emitters with no risk to themselves or their equipment, so I suppose it does make a 'sort' of sense, economically.

And yes, removing any personality protocols would probably be a good idea, if for no other reason than to truncate any potentially budding personalities or sentience emergence from arising in the first place...

Personally, I don't see that as amoral. Removing the personality from an already sentient being would be monstrous, but simply not including it to begin with would be no worse than a genetically engineered life form that didn't have higher brain functions included, but otherwise looked human. A bit ghastly, but not 'wrong' in any ethical sense.

 

[Cakemixo]

Could not the Federation make holographic robots similar to the ones they use to make cars or such today? That way the technology is not in danger under less than ideal enviroments and there is no chance for personalities and insanity.

 

[Guy Gardener]

So if we artificially induce intellectual retardation or downs syndrome in foetuses, who are not wanted by their families, or by design are produced by humans donors for spare parts for sale, doesn't that make slavery of (sub?)human beings conscienceable?

Or really if you could make babies without brains, could they be used as spare parts for babies/people with brains, or even as an exotic food source?

The creation of subholographic intellects to enslave is the objectification towards the limits of holographic intellects, and the fear of a sliding scale that if superholographic intellects came about that mere holographic intellects would too be demoted into a slave class...

Which has already happened.