EM and Mach drive tests

Discussion in 'Science and Technology' started by Asbo Zaprudder, Jun 7, 2018.

  1. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The EM and Mach drives have been independently tested. The tests showed that the drives apparently do not work as their proponents claim. It appears likely that their electronics are simply interacting with the Earth's magnetic field.

    Ah well, back to the drawing board, chaps...
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
  2. Santaman

    Santaman Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Pity, if it were real it would have helped a bit with getting around the solarsystem.
     
  3. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    I'm shocked, shocked.

    It would have been magical.
     
  4. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Energy for nothin' and chicks for free - well perhaps not the latter given that anyone into this stuff is a nerd. I thought the physics behind the Mach drive seemed more plausible.
     
  5. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    https://news.nationalgeographic.com...ics-independent-tests-magnetic-space-science/

    Correction, the results they got indicate interaction with Earth's magnetic field yes, but they aren't 100% certain this is happening, so they will be doing another test to insulate the drive from the Earth's Magnetic field.

    And besides, even if it doesn't work in vacuum, wouldn't it still be relatively useful (in one form or another) to improve engines here on Earth?
     
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  6. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Vice Admiral Admiral

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    How would it (presumably, by it, you mean the EM drive?) possibly improve engines (of what sort?) on Earth? It looks extremely likely that there is no real effect to exploit - only wishful thinking. The claimed thrust is miniscule for the applied power in any case.
     
  7. Santaman

    Santaman Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I am kinda annoyed with engines, so far space propulsion either is very powerful and has low exhaust speeds, while going through fuel in a very short time or very weak but with high exhaust speeds but they last long on a tank of fuel.. combining the best stuff out of those seems to be inpossible.. :wtf:
     
  8. Dryson

    Dryson Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The EM Drive might be helped if it incorporated a means of capitalizing on Magnetic Re-connection that would cause a slight increase in forward velocity.
     
  9. StarCruiser

    StarCruiser Captain Captain

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    There are designs of space drives that are more up to the task but, all of the various ideas have their limits and/or pitfalls.

    The "Orion" drive concept developed during the late '50s and into the '60s could lift a VERY large payload into orbit, in fact, the bigger the better. It's pitfall? Nukes, lots of 'em. it would drop one out the tail pipe and BOOM! Up you go...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion)

    VASIMR is a plasma drive concept that allows variable thrust and would be very useful in space (in system) however, it lacks the oomph needed to lift a load into orbit:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_Specific_Impulse_Magnetoplasma_Rocket

    Then there is the possible alternate nuclear drive - Inertial Confinement Fusion. Lots of thrust and theoretically a semi-practical interstellar drive:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Daedalus

    Any of these would be useful under the right conditions. They all need development and some are further along than others. Some also need supporting power systems up to the task and that is why we need to be pushing nuclear fusion.

    Of course, all are also subject to thermodynamics and therefore, very effective systems need to be created to deal with any waste heat (and there will be plenty for some of these).
     
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  10. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Orion nuclear pulse propulsion - high thrust, high specific impulse, steers like a cow. Good use for nukes though...
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
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  11. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Vice Admiral Admiral

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    There is no such thing as magnetic reconnection - it's a lazy and incorrect physical description of the reconfiguration of magnetic scalar and vector potentials.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
  12. Santaman

    Santaman Vice Admiral Admiral

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    True and there is NERVA as well but the second "nuclear" is mentioned the whole world is afraid they'll get hit by accident and turned into radioactive zombies...
     
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  13. StarCruiser

    StarCruiser Captain Captain

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    It would be nice to find that all of the science "boffins" would start focusing on the practical solutions instead of getting side-tracked by these oddball ideas like the EM drive.

    It was an interesting thing but, never made any sense...
     
  14. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The real rocket scientists never got side tracked by the EM drive in the first place.
     
  15. StarCruiser

    StarCruiser Captain Captain

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    This is true!

    Mostly, the ones that got sidetracked were physicists that were just curious about what this -thing- actually did...
     
  16. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Vice Admiral Admiral

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    They were likely out to prove conservation of linear momentum hadn't been violated. That would have been worrisome for physics as it would break a fundamental symmetry of spacetime. It seems there is still some room for doubt though, even in the case of the EM drive. The Mach drive is less problematic as it can be understood in terms of accepted physics.
     
  17. XCV330

    XCV330 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Tajmar's test rig had several potential flaws, and it was not entirely certain that the EMdrive cavity he was testing was resonant. The couplings also could have let to magnetic interference that would have raised the noise level over any thrust they might have gotten out of their EMdrive unit.

    Ive read over the prepublish paper but I don't really understand the point they had in lumping Mach Effect Megadrive in with the Em drive test, in any case. I don't know a great deal about the Emdrive theory, if there even is a consistent one, but MEGAdrive units right now are left at very low thrust levels, which are hard to discern from lorentz fprce and ambient heat. unlike the Emdrive, Woodward and Fearn, along with Rodal have had good reason to understand the thrust levels they are expecting, and so far NIAC has accepted their initial results as above the noise floor. They are apparently going to test with piezoelectric materials that can handle higher current, but that is yet to be seen.

    In any case, I wouldn't put Tajmar's work as the nail on the lid to either of these ideas, though it does seem like some where salivating for the chance. My all around guess is that whatever thrusts EMdrives have seen that cannot be explained from spurious effects may be the results of Mach Effect, and if so it would make the EmDrive a cul de sac of sorts.

    The problem all of these devices have is that budgets to test them are so small that no one has the money to test a truly large high power model in a vacuum chamber (or orbit) where these issues would not be a problem. When you're dealing with 5 micronewtons, that's a ridiculously small number. The closest to that has been the Eagleworks test but Eagleworks really has a tiny budget that itself ought to be measured in micro-newtons.
     
  18. publiusr

    publiusr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Nuclear Thermal is being looked at again. With larger LVs, maybe the NEP JIMO can be made at last.