Earth culture in the 24th century...?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by AlboOfBorg, May 23, 2008.

  1. AlboOfBorg

    AlboOfBorg Commander Red Shirt

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    It amazes me that in all of the hours of Star Trek we've seen very little of Earth culture in the 24th century. Granted, Star Trek is "space" themed and oriented, but it would be interesting to learn more about the culture of our little blue planet in the Star Trek future. What's considered "cool"? What is the "modern" music like? What's on the local news every day? Are there still police, fire departments, local governments, etc. as they exist now? How is our culture influenced by other cultures in the galaxy (like, are there Klingon or Vulcan restaurants on Earth)?
     
  2. Sululu

    Sululu Ensign Red Shirt

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    Yeah that would be interesting to see.

    I get the impression - from what I have seen on Trek - that Earth culture is supposedly people following their own interests and pursuits (thanks to the elimination of poverty, money and introduction of technology) but is incredibly sterile and bland.

    Anyway, if technology had rendered self-advancement worthless, then people wouldn't be spending the day in a winery outside Paris, or running a Creole restaurant in New Orleans. They would be paying Orion slave girls for a good screwing in a dark alleyway, high on PCP and in holodecks pretending to shoot up their neighbours.
     
  3. Deimos Anomaly

    Deimos Anomaly Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Read up on what it was like to live in one of the Communist states.

    Imagine that but with advanced future technology.

    What you've got is basically life in the UFP.
     
  4. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    I somehow doubt that they exile you to Siberia if you criticize the Federation President.
     
  5. Wonderlust King

    Wonderlust King Captain Captain

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    Yeah I'd imagine its more or less like how communism was supposed to be. Not like how it turned out in Russia, where is was basically just a shell for a dictatorship.
     
  6. BigC

    BigC Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    This is a good point. Everywhere communism has been empowered it has become a shell for dictatorship. Perhaps by the 23rd Century we finally broke the mold and made it work. It's probably a mix of several systems. Communism, capitalism and a good chunk of political correctness run amok.

    They say there is no crime but why then do they still have prisons? (Tom Paris) There must still be fire departments and police and even I'll wager a version of the FBI and CIA. It's a Utopia with a catch.
     
  7. FordSVT

    FordSVT Vice Admiral Admiral

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    They have a democracy, can travel or work where they please, have free access to education, health care and religious freedom, and the people control the means to produce their own food, clothing and personal goods via replicator. We've seen no evidence that the government owns everything or even collects taxes, in fact we've seen very little evidence of how the civilian government operates at all.

    In many ways their economy and government is quite unlike anything that exists or has existed at any point in human history, and to say it's "like the USSR but with phasers and warp drive" is ridiculous and seems to be based on about 20 seconds of thought and many years of listening to similar opinions to your own.
     
  8. doublegood

    doublegood Fleet Captain

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    Well, considering you have the option to migrate off-planet, anyone who doesn't like the fact that Earth is obviously the United States on a planetary scale isn't exactly screwed.
     
  9. Deimos Anomaly

    Deimos Anomaly Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    We've never seen anyone owning their own ship, or even their own planetary transport.

    For that matter there doesn't even seem to be a merchant marine. Anyone or anything going anywhere in the UFP goes by Starfleet!
     
  10. FordSVT

    FordSVT Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Who needs their own transport when they can step on a transporter pad to instantly travel across the planet or use incredibly quick mass transit systems and orbital shuttles? And how many Earth based civilians have we met with any kind of ship? Most of the people we meet are working for Starfleet or aren't even Federation citizens (like Kivas Fajo). Again, you confuse the wants and needs of a 21st century human (who wants his own car) with that of those in the future. And if an air car or ground transport is needed, I'm sure it can be arranged, much like renting a car.

    No merchant marine? None of those people ferrying cargo back and forth from DS9 (or the various colonies and worlds we've seen since TOS) own their own ships? Your proof? Dialogue? Were they all wearing Starfleet uniforms and I missed that? You're confusing administration of small parts (like DS9) of an extremely complex trade system with ownership of the whole.

    What kind of proof do you need, their ship's registration papers? :rolleyes:

    Star Trek is mostly about Starfleet, not civilian life. We're looking through a slim prism of their society, and you're extrapolating a lot about civilian life through that military lens without any real backup in dialogue.
     
  11. BigC

    BigC Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Didn't we see a ground car approaching "future Data's" residence in All Good Things? I wonder who owned it?
     
  12. FordSVT

    FordSVT Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No doubt the Communist Federation of Planets. :lol:

    But seriously, you might have your own if your job required it or if you lived in a place where access to transporters was more scarce, provided by employer or government. But much like people who live in NYC or other major metropolises with good public transportation, a lot of Federation citizens simply wouldn't need a vehicle to get around or have the feeling of independence people who live in contemporary Western society seem to need.

    Again, there society is so different from ours its almost impossible to brand it with any contemporary label as we're familiar with it (like communism or socialism or capitalism). It's a weird hybrid version of a lot of philosophies, only possible due to their nearly unlimited resources and "magic" technology.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2008
  13. Carpe Occasio

    Carpe Occasio Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The United Federation of Planets (commonly referred to as The Federation) was an interstellar federal republic, composed of planetary governments that agreed to exist semi-autonomously under a single central government, and to share their knowledge and resources in peaceful cooperation and space exploration. (DS9: "Battle Lines"; VOY: "Innocence")

    The Federation's government was a representative republic, headquartered on Earth. (TOS: "Amok Time"; DS9: "Rapture"; VOY: "In the Flesh"; Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home)

    The government consisted of three branches: the executive, the legislature and the judiciary.

    The Executive:

    The executive branch was responsible for the day-to-day management of the Federation. The democratically-elected Federation President was the head of this branch. (DS9: "Paradise Lost"; Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home) The Federation President served as both the head of state and head of government; as chief executive officer of the government, the President determined most of the Federation's foreign policy, managed budgetary concerns, and served as supreme commander of the Federation's military forces. (Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country) The President's office was located in the Earth city of Paris on the European continent. (Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country)

    The Federation Cabinet was a special executive committee to the President of the United Federation of Planets. (DS9: "Extreme Measures")

    The Legislature:

    The Federation Council was the unicameral legislative body of the Federation. (TOS: "Amok Time") Composed of representatives from the various member worlds, the Federation Council held the power to create, amend, and ratify Federation law. (DS9: "Rapture"; TNG: "Force of Nature") The Federation Council also held a great deal of influence over the operations of the Federation's military service, the Federation Starfleet. It sometimes served as the judging body of specially-convened courts-martial, and on occasion issued operational orders to Starfleet. (Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home; TNG: "The Defector") The Council also held influence over the making of Federation foreign policy. (DS9: "The Way of the Warrior", "For the Cause") The Council's meeting chamber was in the Earth city of San Francisco, on the west coast of the North American continent.

    The Judiciary:

    The judiciary was the branch of the Federation's government which was responsible for the administration of justice in the name of the state according to Federation law. Its highest level was the Federation Supreme Court. (DS9: "Doctor Bashir, I Presume")

    The exact nature of the government of the Federation has never been made clear on screen. From the information available, the United Federation of Planets would appear to be a constitutional representative republic, similar to that of the United States, prior to the 1860s.

    The exact division of powers between the Federation government and the governments of its member worlds is unknown, though various episodes indicate the Federation placed great value on maintaining local sovereignty over local affairs. Member worlds were left to manage their own governance in accordance with their own traditions and local laws, so long as the general requirements of membership were met.

    However, Federation law did grant the government emergency authority to override local governance and declare martial law on a member's territory. (TNG: "Force of Nature"; DS9: "Homefront")

    From Memory Alpha
    http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/United_Federation_of_Planets
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2008
  14. captcalhoun

    captcalhoun Admiral Admiral

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    Harry Mudd owned his own ship. and IIRC, so too did Cyrano Jones
     
  15. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    "Doctor Bashir, I Presume?" also established that Julian Bashir's father owned and ran his own interstellar transport business.
     
  16. Rabid Trekkie

    Rabid Trekkie Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    If anything, the level of technology is the reason that money is no longer needed. When you can create pretty much whatever you need as many times as you like, everyone can have a base standard of living. Everything else becomes secondary after that. If you want money you can go out an earn it (did DS9 ever say if Joseph Sisko got payed for the restaurant?) and if you don't then you can stay home. The value of something then becomes based on the time put into it. A carpenter making an intricately designed chair can sell it for a lot of money, being paid for the effort put into it, if the customer wants more than Replicator style A.
    And of course with no threat of going bankrupt, everyone is free to follow their passions. Whereas today the next great American novelist may be so busy working three jobs s/he doesn't have time to write, in Trek that person can write till their heart's content and still have a roof over their head and food on the table.
     
  17. Joshua Howard

    Joshua Howard Captain Captain

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    This is flawed, based upon the assumption that the idea of Communism is a bad one. To the contrary, Communism is a great idea, but in our present world it just happens to be an idea that hasn't worked.

    I think that the Star Trek version of Communism is more based upon a Free Market Commonwealth idea (which would more or less replace the Corporation as it is known today) rather than a nationalist/federally dictated wealth distribution program.

    Realistically, there isn't anything that unusual about the idea of everyone having the opportunity to be equal; the only thing wierd about it is the fact that we live in a society that presently gets ahead in a rather animalistic way - by trampling on whoever (or whatever) happens to get in it's away. To those in the grasp of a fear-based society, it is difficult to comprehend the dynamics of one based upon trust.
     
  18. Lukara

    Lukara Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Perhaps that is because we already have so little culture down here nowadays that it's difficult to predict how it'll develop in 300 years (or whether it might die out completely).
     
  19. Triskelion

    Triskelion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm sold! :techman: Where do I sign up?

    PS I'm not sold on the notion that communism, even in its theoretical state, is a good idea. Not by a long shot! I think it breeds helplessness, passivity and anomie. And that's not even talking about application.


    The other side of Federation culture is that people are still productive despite there being a lack of currency. I don't think you can get this from communism. Because in the Federation there are probably mechanisms in place to dissuade being a couch potato. Perhaps psychological or educational development. Something is promoting "working for the greater good" besides mass hypnosis and manipulation. Further, you don't see people in the Fed riding on the coattails of the poor and skimming disaster relief. Oh, did I say that out loud?
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2008
  20. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    But that's the rub.. what does he write about? his experiences of watching his replicator make his dinner?

    :lol: