Ira and Avery had very different ideas about where Sisko's story should go as well. Ira wanting him to depart from reality as a Celestial being and Avery wanting him to be a good family man who moves on from tragedy.
Duplicate Kirk, Baby Dadddy?
- Thread starter Captain Dax
- Start date
Sounds like the Litverse gave us the best of both worlds. At least in the First Splinter.
But what does this have to do with the geometrically unlikely allegation that Kirk's "wolf" knocked up Rand?
But what does this have to do with the geometrically unlikely allegation that Kirk's "wolf" knocked up Rand?
I still don't think it was Kirk. He's not the kind who would have affairs with subordinates. Even though Starfleet allows fraternization, Kirk would not do that.
And while Rand may - may - have a bit of a crush on Kirk, she would not actively pursue him either.
And while Rand may - may - have a bit of a crush on Kirk, she would not actively pursue him either.
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And certainly not Kirk's "wolf," unless the 23rd century has come up with a way to do it fully clothed.
It seems like one of those ultra-dark things that fans like to speculate on.
It was essentially written so that you could interpret it that way, or not.
The passage in The Captain's Daughter (which I quoted in full above) was written so that you could interpret it as Kirk and Rand having had an affair. There is not one single word in it that suggests it has anything to do with Evil Kirk's rape attempt, and "The Enemy Within" makes it perfectly clear that the attempt didn't succeed, because Fisher sounded the alarm before that could happen. So there is no possible way that could have been the source of Rand's pregnancy. If anyone's reading that into the text of the book, it's because they're misremembering the episode, the book, or both.
No, I meant that the question of who the father was (anonymous upwardly mobile Starfleeter) was written so fans could make up their own mind if it was normal Jim or not.
Ah, yes. That part I agree with.
Although as I've said, I think it's profoundly misunderstanding Kirk and Rand's whole onscreen relationship to believe that would ever have happened between them. The fact that it never could, that Kirk would never even let himself consider it while in his right mind, was the entire defining thread there.
Incidentlaly, I checked my PDF copy of the first-season writers' guide to see what it said about Kirk and Rand, and its description of Rand is actually pretty surprising, though unsurprisingly sexist:
Of course, all that went out the window later when they cast a succession of female yeomen-of-the-week as candidates to replace Rand, scuttling the original idea that female yeomen were a rare exception. Also, once there was no longer a regular yeoman, the idea of the yeoman as the captain's personal valet and military aide was forgotten, and they just became generic functionaries bringing him reports to sign.
The bible's description is surprising in that it focuses on Rand's professional side and doesn't even hint at romantic tension with Kirk. It's quite a change from the 1964 series prospectus's description of Yeoman Colt as someone "with a shape even a uniform could not hide," who "undoubtedly wishes she could also serve [the captain] in more personal departments," and who is "very female, disturbingly so." It makes me regret the wasted potential of the character. They ended up dwelling on the unresolved sexual tension, or on making Rand a lust object for Charlie Evans, so we got to see little of Rand as a highly competent professional, with just glimpses like her cleverness in using a phaser to heat coffee.
It's also interesting to see how the tricorder was originally seen mainly as a means of recording the captain's logs, rather than a scientific or medical device. That's another way in which the role of yeomen diminished once Rand left, since the idea was that the yeoman would be constantly by the captain's side keeping a record of the mission (explaining where the captain's log narrations came from), but that was largely forgotten after the first season.
As I recall, the original conception of the Kirk/Rand relationship was supposed to be something akin to Marshall Dillon and Miss Kitty on Gunsmoke: The audience could tell they were perfect for each other, but it was pretty much impossible due to their circumstances.
I could maybe see Kirk hooking up with someone else in Starfleet during shore leave at a Starbase or something, but never with someone who was serving aboard his ship. That's why I believe that even though it seems like Kirk was going to chat up Marlena Moreau at the end of "Mirror, Mirror", he quickly remembered himself and adjusted his conversation with her to something professional.
Now, Kelvin Kirk, that guy's a total man whore.
Yeah, I get the impression that there aren't many rules forbidding fraternization between shipmates unless one serves directly under the other. Certainly Gene Roddenberry didn't see much of anything wrong with having romantic and sexual relationships with the women who worked for him.
Agreed. Look at how embarrassed Kirk is to be on a landing party with Helen Noel months after he had a mild flirtation with her at a Christmas party. And how awkward it is when Miss Piper reminds Kirk of one of his old hookups in front of Mendez in "The Menagerie." ("She simply mentioned that she knew you, sir.") He's concerned about even the appearance of impropriety with someone under his command. Yes, Kirk does kiss Areel Shaw on the bridge at the end of "Court Martial", but then again, she an old flame and she wasn't serving under him.
I could maybe see Kirk hooking up with someone else in Starfleet during shore leave at a Starbase or something, but never with someone who was serving aboard his ship. That's why I believe that even though it seems like Kirk was going to chat up Marlena Moreau at the end of "Mirror, Mirror", he quickly remembered himself and adjusted his conversation with her to something professional.
Yeah. If you look at TOS, Kirk's pretty obviously a serial monogamist who falls in love quickly and deeply but who knows that any sort of relationship is impossible as long as he's the Captain of the Enterprise. He becomes a bit more promiscuous in the second season, but only a little. And when he seduces someone, it's usually in the line of duty.
Now, Kelvin Kirk, that guy's a total man whore.
Well, yes, but remember, he grew up completely without his father (and with some unspecified man who apparently cared more about his restored 20th century automobile than about Kirk), as opposed to Prime Kirk (at least according to Diane Carey) growing up mostly without his father.
Yes. I never said that there wasn't a reason for his different personality.
Yeah, and at any rate he seems to have settled down and become more like his Prime self by Beyond. Maybe something to do with why Carol's no longer on the ship...?
It was always the intent of the Kelvin films to show the characters growing into the versions we knew over the course of the trilogy. Kelvin Kirk was more rowdy to start with because of his different upbringing, but the point of the films was that Pike and Spock Prime set him on the path toward fulfilling his true potential and becoming the captain he was capable of being.
I don't think I ever thought of it in quite those terms. Thank you very much for (to coin a phrase once heard on the Edge of Forever) "an uncommon insight."
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