A few months ago, i was kind of "re-discovering" YouTubeTV, with all its "remember when this happened" glory. From old episodes of The Cosby Show and Family Ties to watching the opening credits to Dynasty and even Charlie's Angels, I was deep in the well of this tool from Computer Heaven. My favorite thing to watch, of course, was Trek, with particular emphasis on DS9. Depending on my particular inspiration and curiosity for that night ("Jake? Kira and Odo? Dukat confronts Sisko", etc.?) i was able to view a critical mass of what remains to this day my favorite series ever. The experience almost approached watching them in first-run, except i often chose not to watch them in order (sorry). While not every episode was available, plenty of "mundane", and quieter character/issue/plot episodes were available, and reminded of how well DS9 grew and developed over time. Well, upon my recent attempts to replicate this experience, i found that overwhelmingly, the critical mass of DS9 material was, stupidly, tributes to the war, its lead up, extended battle montages, with maybe a few "cool" non-war specific moments thrown in (Worf's snapping of Weyoun's neck, for example, and of certain Garak innuendoes and "badass Sisko" moments of course). I do think there were some of the usual fanwank episodes preserved in the over thousand "videos" (please people, for the love of all that is good, DO NOT mix a ds9 episode with music from Foreigner or Coldplay. Have mercy, please.) - "Duet", "The Visitor", "Far Beyond The Stars", and of course, "WYLB", but one has to dig through countless videos of the aforementioned war and battle and sexy war lead up footage to even find these. And the way these creators of these montages tout this, with a kind of unrestrained "oooh look how cool euphoria" in their text induced some serious rolleye activity on my part. Which begs the question, why all the emphasis on war? Note that i see this as an ever-common sentiment around these parts as well, that DS9 was good b/c either it was ABOUT war, or that its pursuit of a previously unexplored path of an ongoing war was a direct subversion of all that TNG-uber Roddenberry Trek was about, and that, by definition, makes DS9 "kewl". Added to that, for instance, is the sentiment, that Seasons 6 and 7 should have been a complete, all-war arc, and that many of the stand alone eps. that "interrupt" the war - as if these characters have nothing else worthwhile going on in their lives - were "jarring", "unnecessary", and symptomatic of a lack of courage on the part of the writers and producers. The thing is, when i watched DS9 in its most of its first-run from mid-Season 3 through the finale, i dont remember watching DS9 like that, as if i was just watching for the next war intrigue/morally grey action and/or political episode. Those were great, but I remember falling in love with the characters, the uniqueness and possibilities of the setting(s), the skillful ways that the writers would show and not tell us what is "the good", or at least "the possible good", the way the show truly incorporated Trekkian values while also raising questions about previous assumptions, and even watching the show fulfill Sisko's words in "Emissary" that the characters explore their lives, everyday. I remember really being into episodes like "Destiny", "Accession", and "Rapture", as well "Children of Time", "Facets", "Defiant", "Explorers", "A Simple Investigation", "Dr. Bashir, I Presume" and "Business As Usual". As goofy as some them were, lighthearted comedy romps like "Looking for Par'mach", "You are Cordially Invited", and "The Magnificient Ferengi" always managed to put a smile on my face and even a nice warm, glow in my cold heart. I really dug "The Assignment", "Empok Nor" and "Rejoined", non of which were about the war. And of course, "FBTS", while informed by Sisko's momentary despair during the war, covered a much bigger canvas than that. These were all part of the DS9 journey for me, and made the character, and show, an extremely rich and rewarding journey through a particular point in time and place in the stars. THIS WAS NOT ALL ABOUT THE WAR. The war, in my opinion, was one leg on the journey - a very transformative and informative leg, albeit, but one leg nonetheless. And i dont think this two year conflict could have been as rich overall if DS9 had not had so many previous non-war episodes as well as the "stand alone interruptions" during the war that reminded us of the essential "humanity" (or stand-in humanity, whatever) of all these characters. DS9 WAS NOT ROME, or nuBSG, or even The Wire. It was NOT some cable TV show about showing an ongoing, sexy canvas of constant war, nastiness, or the worst of human depravity. It readily acknowledged that those existed, and that they may even pose constant challenges, act as a frequent Newton's Law - for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. It acknowledged that these may sometimes cast a heavy shadow, a pall over characters who otherwise constantly attempt to do good and engage in self-improvement. It put to the challenge many of the somewhat more trite presumptions of TNG/VOY trek. And it showed how opposing forces may eventually leave no choice but to forcefully opposed, even in a military fashion. But in the end, DS9 was about a group of persons who are forced both by ideals and circumstance to pursue higher good, to act courageously for the good, often by forging previously unthinkable paths and relationships (Klingons and Feds, for instance, or Quark as part of the resistance movement during the six parter) and had their core values tested, tried and stretched. It truly was about the journey, not the destination. So then I have to ask, why the reduction, by both naysayers and especially the current crop of fans, of DS9 as "the war show?". Am i missing something?
Uh, please note, i may have to get off the computer in a very short time...so I may not be around to see the development of my own thread. If so, i hope that people will please feel free to continue to discuss this on their own w/o me. I'm really interested in the various opinions on this topic. So fire away!!!!
Would you rather folks spent time making montages of Ferengi comedy moments? I do agree there does seem to be an overabundance of war montages and tributes, but let's face it: such moments truly were jaw-dropping events when DS9 was on the air. Fleet battles of that magnitude were never even attempted before in Trek -the best you could hope for was maybe a few ships at any given time. The thing, though, was DS9's battles never felt gratuitously done simply for their own sake (re: let's get a whole bunch of ships and blow 'em up real good); they had a point and real consequences of their outcome (we'll ignore Shattered Mirror here). So, it doesn't surprise me that whenever someone gets inside their head to do a "Memorable DS9 Moments" video montage, a lot of what gets put in will be space battles. They really were Memorable Moments. Still, maybe someone should do a "Best Torture O'Brien Moments" tribute.
Wow, I guess im the only one who really cares about this subjeect. Sykonee, my point has never been that the battle montages were not worthwhile viewing. I remember being glued to the tv, like most other niners, during DS9's epic ship and station battles, particularly during "A Call To Arms" through "Sacrifice of Angels". Like many people, i remember my blood rising and going "damn!!!!" at the end of "A Call to Arms", at Sisko cryptically leading the fleet to DS9. And to this day, i still get kind a goofy smile/fist pump moment when the Klingons have their asses handed to them by the DS9 crew in "Way of the Warrior". But DS9 was about SOOOOO much more than those things, and even about more than just dramatic conflict (this term being used a stand-in for exploration). It involved an exploration of the inner emotional, psychological, spiritual and moral lives of its characters amidst a backdrop of conflict, competing ideologies, alliances and not-so-straight paths. If I were to create montages to the show, it would necessarily include, among other things, Kira's ponderings and expressions of regret and empathy for certain Cardassians about some of her activities during the Occupation; Odo's moments of pining for Kira and other moments demonstrating that he, the efficient, unbiased administrator of justice, was vulnerable to the weaknesses and frailties common to solids (as in the end of 'Children of Time", or certain scenes from "Things Past" and "Behind The Lines"); scenes of Miles and Keiko, as the Chief experiences the discomfort of not being able to fully give Keiko & Molly what they need, in terms of stability; of Sisko sharing life lessons that he's gleaned with Jake, with Worf, with Odo (or Bashir, during the short 'Sisko as mentor to Bashir" period); of MU moments between Sisko and mirror Jennifer, or even with the Intendant; and maybe even, yes, some Ferengi moments (actually, one of the most rewarding parts of the the six-parter was Quark's attempt to rescue Rom, the clear demonstration of familial love that was shown, and the nobility/ability to aspire beyond simple self-interest that both demonstrated). Because these, along with so many others, colored DS9 and gave it the rich, full-bodied narrative that made so many of its high-profile, action and tension heavy scenes so much more rewarding. So much more to the show than just sexy, edge of your seat battle and conflict moments, darkness and moral greyness.
One thing to remember is that a wartime Federation is also something no other Trek ever attempted. Never on this kind of scale. It's one of the things that really makes DS9 stand out, so it's one of the things that really easily sticks out in people's minds. There was definitely more to the show, but I don't find it strange that a lot of people devote their time to celebrating that aspect of the show, since it was something uniquely, distinctly DS9. Additionally, I think that seasons 6 and 7 were the two best seasions of the show, pound for pound. Although there is a much more important question here. You're taking youtube seriously as an examination of the fandom as a whole. Why?
I have to agree with the idea that it was just so new and rare for trek to seriously take a look at the war stories....I don't think its absurd that Youtube users have focused in on the battle scenes at all.
Old Man Dax, I agree with you for the most part. The YouTube tributes, at least the ones most easily found and therefore visited the most, are too focused on the wars and the battles. It frustrates the heck out of me because I feel people are bypassing as you pointed out some of the multiple other fascinating elements and storylines of the show. Of course my personal solution is to make my own DS9 YouTube tribute but I'm still learning how to piece such a thing together.
We're in the youtube age of cats with eye-lasers. Everybody loves the pewpew. But my one of my favorite youtube clips (nevermind just Trek clips) is the whole O'Brien/Bashir exchange in the runabout. Classic stuff.
And now one can see why people use lots and lots of battles for music montages. Giant spaceship confrontations are eye-catching in precisely the way that is absolutely not. DS9 may not just be about the war, but the war is one of the most visually arresting subjects for a DS9 video. So understandably people make a lot of those.
Actually, I think it may have something to do with your initial post being too long. I know I looked at that mammoth block of text that just kept scrolling and scrolling and gave up.
Having just watched DS9 this year for the first time, my impression is that the show was never "about" the Dominion War - this was just a new vehicle for exploring new Trek themes, and old ones with a different spin. Indeed it would have been boring as hell if the production staff did make that mistake.
The war did dominate in later seasons, especially the last two, but there was still more to DS9 in seasons 6 and 7 than just the Dominion. You had everything from morality plays ('Far Beyond The Stars') to farces (Magnificent Ferengi) to Mob stories (Honor Among Thieves).
You're right in that DS9 is more about war. However it is a big part of the what makes the show stand out. I love most of DS9 battle videos on YouTube mainly because the crew on DS9 did such a great job.
Sorry, i've actually been out of town for about a week and a half...and didnt have regular access to a computer. Didn't even expect this thread to be active, after the initiall non-responses. Guess i need a bbs re-education course. Anyway, thanks for the responses that were logged. I can agree with the sentiments that from a standpoint of visuals, the war/battle scenes would be most eye-catching for a DS9 video. But, i would think that as a fan, and not as a casual viewer, you would want people to know that this seven year show was not just about cool visuals.
Actually, I thought DS9 was better before the war stuff. Let me tell ya, that opinion is really shared by the majority!!! lol I think the Trek shows have been best before they "found their footing" so to speak. Before they got into a routine. The DS9 war was cool the first time though but the more I watch it the more I'd rather watch the earlier eps that are more "off the wall" and more about exploration and such. And the characters are more fun early on too before everyone's all depressed and we have multiple stupid Ferengi episodes.