Dominion Power

[Photon]

Seems to not garner alot of respect on some of the other forums (IMHO). Watching the Jem'Hadar this morning, I blv the writers wanted us to be in shock and awe of the power of the Dominion and the extent of its technology.

Exhibit 1: 3rd Talak'talan walks right through a force field-no need to "adapt" or study it
Exhibit 2: Galaxy class-Odyssey, 4 years from Wolf 359 and all the SF improvments in tactical b/c of the Borg. Took it on the chin from 3 Battle Bugs, no less.
We don't know the shape the Jem ships were in, but we know the Odyssey was in pretty bad shape and if the Jems would have pressed the attack longer-all runabouts and the Keough's ship would have been destroyed by weapons' fire.

So in a nutshell: The Dominion was lethal, nearly as lethal as the Borg. I blv ppl who regulary view Deep Space 9 understand this, but the casual watcher doesn't seem to quite understand.

 

[Tomalak]

That was exactly the intention. Showing a Galaxy-class ship, just like the Enterprise we all knew, being destroyed quite easily by the Jem'Hadar shows how great a threat they were. Rob Wolfe said in the companion that it was his view that Picard and the Enteprise would have fared no better than Keogh and the Odyssey.

That's why they needed the Defiant!

 

[DanCPA]

The DS9 people should have destroyed the Enterprise... Then we could have had a new Enterprise for the movies!

 

[nx1701g]

^ And Berman would have gotten revenge by really destroying the Defiant in First Contact like he'd originally planned.

 

[Photon]

The DS9 people should have destroyed the Enterprise... Then we could have had a new Enterprise for the movies! :thumbsup:
Heh, I sure ol baldy was patrolling the Romulan NZ or out scouting for 5th Dynasty aftifacts.

 

[DanCPA]

nx1701g said:
^ And Berman would have gotten revenge by really destroying the Defiant in First Contact like he'd originally planned.

And Moore would have had it back the next week... so what would it have mattered?

 

[Hermiod]

Tomalak said:
That was exactly the intention. Showing a Galaxy-class ship, just like the Enterprise we all knew, being destroyed quite easily by the Jem'Hadar shows how great a threat they were. Rob Wolfe said in the companion that it was his view that Picard and the Enteprise would have fared no better than Keogh and the Odyssey.

That's why they needed the Defiant!

Blowing up the Enterprise-D a week or so after TNG finished for good on a different show that TNG fans didn't even necessarily watch. Yeah, I'm sure that would have gone down well.

And the Enterprise-D would have done better. Troi would have sensed hostility and the Enterprise would have warped out of the way.

 

[Timo]

Ignoring the needs of drama for the moment, the main reason for Dominion lethality would have been their alienness.

Sure they walk through Federation forcefields, and fire through Federation shields - because neither side has had the chance to adapt to the weapons of the other, not even through "proxy wars" or other indirect contact. There has never been an arms race between the two, never a chance to design weapons and tactics that match those of the enemy. The Feds could probably have pulled similar tricks on Dominion tech early on, had they decided to go on the offensive.

In a couple of months, the Feds were already on a more or less even footing, being able to withstand Dominion phased-polaron blasts and deliver effective return fire. The Borg would have done that quicker, but the Feds are no sloths when it comes to adaptation.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Hermiod]

^Though in "Call to Arms" the Cardassians are surprised that Federation shields are suddenly effective against Dominion weapons. Dukat even blames Sisko.

It's interesting that Starfleet Engineers' reputation for ingenuity made it all the way back to the Dominion.

 

[Tomalak]

Hermiod said:
Blowing up the Enterprise-D a week or so after TNG finished for good on a different show that TNG fans didn't even necessarily watch. Yeah, I'm sure that would have gone down well.

You obviously don't understand - he was not stating an intention to blow up the Enterprise, but simply saying that the Jam'Hadar were so dangerous that if the Enterprise were there instead, it still would have been destroyed.

 

[Hermiod]

Tomalak said:
You obviously don't understand - he was not stating an intention to blow up the Enterprise, but simply saying that the Jam'Hadar were so dangerous that if the Enterprise were there instead, it still would have been destroyed.

I fully understand what Wolfe was saying, hence the second line of my post which you edited out.

 

[Can]

I think from writers perspective Dominion was perfect hostile element for Federation and Alpha Quadrant in general. They were powerful. They were numereous and always multiplying by mass cloning of Jem Hadar and ship production and they had an edge in espionage/sabotage by shapeshifters abilities BUT that was the all advantages they had. Except these factors they were not overly decisive. They could be beaten in a conventional land or space battle. You could not be sure who shall win at the end , always keeping the suspense. Except a few minor surprises they were almost same level with Federation. That's why it was intense and pleasue to watch Dominion episodes. The only thing I didn't like was involvement of Prophets during some battles ( like in "Sacrifice of Angels" ) Whenever god like powers come in to picture with deux machina , it sucks ( just like they do in another franchise which starts with "Star..." word again.

 

[Uriel]

Appearing powerful onscreen has much more to do with overall scariness than just blowing stuff up. Sure, the Dominion could take out a Galaxy class starship without breaking a sweat, but they aren't all that scary. They're bascially your standard issue fascist power, with deluded authoritarians at the top and fanatical shock troops at the bottom. We've seen the same basic enemy in hundreds of TV shows and movies.

Compare the Dominion to the Borg, who come off as much more powerful (esp. early Borg, before they were ruined.) The Borg could blow stuff up too, but more than that, their society is truly frightening. They're not just your usual warmed-over version of the Nazis, but a fundamentaly different, almost insectoid race. Their scariness factor greatly enhances their aura of power.

 

[kv1at3485]

The Borg aren't anything special either. It's the whole Commie's-in-space thing that has also been repeated in this-and-that scifi/space opera setting. (Earliest example I can think of is Starship Troopers, and all of the bad imitations afterwards.)

EDIT: Well, the Borg merge the whole stereotypical Commie thing with another concept: the aggressive hegemonizing swarm. But again, this is nothing new in the annals of scifi/space opera.

 

[Uriel]

The Borg are not unique in science fiction, I agree, but they do surpass most of their predecessors. The "bugs" in Starship Troopers (I speak here of the novel--we won't even consider the idiotic movie) are nothing more than a big ugly enemy for the heros to kill. There's no philisophical depth to their portrayal. Heinlin, militarist that he was, just made them up as an excuse for humans to fight a war. Compared to Star Trek's Borg episodes, Starship Troopers is a hack job.

 

[Tralis]

I don't think of the Dominion as Nazi's in space. I think of them more as a Dar-Al Islaam in space. One very religious core trying to spread its way as far as it can while politically taking control of the converts.

 

[Photon]

The only thing I didn't like was involvement of Prophets during some battles ( like in "Sacrifice of Angels" ) Whenever god like powers come in to picture with deux machina , it sucks ( just like they do in another franchise which starts with "Star..." word again.

Totally agree. I would have like to see what would have transpired if the Dom ships made it thru the WH and how our heros would have adapted-perhaps using Bajoran/Maquis techniques to stifle the Dominion.

 

[Tomalak]

That would have been rather banal though, turning the programme into another show obsessed with war. The Prophets were an integral part of what made DS9 unique, and I wouldn't trade that for anything.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

Photon said:

The only thing I didn't like was involvement of Prophets during some battles ( like in "Sacrifice of Angels" ) Whenever god like powers come in to picture with deux machina , it sucks ( just like they do in another franchise which starts with "Star..." word again.

Totally agree. I would have like to see what would have transpired if the Dom ships made it thru the WH and how our heros would have adapted-perhaps using Bajoran/Maquis techniques to stifle the Dominion.

Both of which failed, by the way.

What with the ships that the Dominion already had, the Federation Alliance was getting it's collective asses kicked. I don't think an infusion of even more ships would have provided anything but unnecessary conflict.

 

[The_Emperor]

Tomalak said:
That was exactly the intention. Showing a Galaxy-class ship, just like the Enterprise we all knew, being destroyed quite easily by the Jem'Hadar shows how great a threat they were. Rob Wolfe said in the companion that it was his view that Picard and the Enteprise would have fared no better than Keogh and the Odyssey.

That's what I assumed when I first watched the episode. To drive home to the viewer that, had that been the Enterprise, then Picard and the crew would all be dead. It wasn't just that they used a Galaxy class ship, but there was also the fact that the Captain looked so much like Picard. The only thing missing was a bearded 1st Officer (Heh, would've been funny if Tom Riker had been the 1st Officer on the Odyssey ).