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Does the temporal cold war make sense? (Temporal Prime Directive)

YellowSubmarine

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At first, I hated the temporal cold war, but at some point I started liking it. However, it doesn't seem to make sense to me.

As I understand it, when you travel through time, either backwards or forward, you're changing the timeline only between the earliest and the latest time you were in. The timeline after that hasn't been established yet. You do change the future after that but from their perspective this incident is just a part of history. And if someone from that future travels back to undo these time travel incidents he will be changing the past and violating the temporal prime directive.

There were no future travel agents to stop Kirk or Picard from time travelling, Sisko was investigated but by agents from his time period, Janeway had visits by temporal agents from the 29th century but only when her time travel involving something from the same or later period.

Agent Daniels was from the 31st century, but all other factions in the temporal cold war were from earlier periods:
1. The Future Guy was from the 28th century. Unless the future guy was talking to the future too, his participation should be a part of history by that time, and his faction had members after the 31st century. If that was the case they would be using 31st century time travel technology, and wouldn't be trying to steal it the hard way.
2. The Sphere Builders looking at the future as of the 26th century. If that can be considered time travel (I'm not sure it could, as they had had the ability to explore all possible future timelines), they travelled only to the 26th century, and the Daniels who visited the Enterprise came from a timeline that didn't exist.

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Temporal_Cold_War

Everyone participating has died long before the 31st century, so it would seem that the Federation are changing the past, and there is a massive violation of the temporal prime directive.

Now, of course, there are two other possibilities:
1. Daniels was an impostor.
2. Daniels came from the future that never existed and never would have existed where they believed that their future is the one that's supposed to exist (which would be contradicted by the end of Shockwave).
 
i never cared to try to rationalize timetravel. if you try to explain the phenomenon with today's science, all you end up with is a fistful of nothing. i stopped trying to explain Star trek when the multiverse theory was added in TNG: Paralells.
 
Yeah, it makes no sense. Sorry. I still kinda enjoyed it.

At the very least, we know Daniels is from an alternate future that diverged at "Shockwave", and even more at "The Expanse" and beyond. Neither the destruction of the colony in the former nor the attack on Earth in the latter happened in "his" past (much like how in Spock Prime's timeline, Nero didn't appear in 2233, Jim Kirk knew his father, Vulcan wasn't destroyed etc). Also, Daniels' past includes a huge battle with the Sphere Builders that features the Enterprise-J, in the Expanse of the 26th century. In "our" timeline, Archer and co. destroyed the Delphic Expanse in 2153.

Which leads me to suspect Daniels' job was to damage-control - he had to make sure Archer founded the Federation no matter what went wrong in this timeline.
 
TCW was a poor idea that should of been dropped for a Romulan arc tied into the Romulan War. Time Travel doesn't make sense even when you make a thrilling plot using it and also I feel that having the federation able to explore it just opens up too many plot issues.
 
IIRC all the future stuff was put in at the behest of the network, who weren't thrilled at the idea of a prequel. They wanted an element ahead of Voyager's timeframe. The TCW itself was adapted from an original concept created by one of the showrunners.

My speculation is that had the original plan carried on (as in, the show continued in the format of seasons 1 and 2, no Xindi arc or season 4 TOS prequel episodes), Future Guy would have turned out to be Romulan, and the Suliban would have been the "face" and footsoldiers of the Romulan War. The Suliban may even have been part of the Romulan Empire. Thus they could have a war with lots of fighting between humans and Suliban, with Romulans standing back in their big motherships making big cheesy proclamations like "Soon Earth will fall and Starfleet will be crushed!"
 
My speculation is that had the original plan carried on (as in, the show continued in the format of seasons 1 and 2, no Xindi arc or season 4 TOS prequel episodes), Future Guy would have turned out to be Romulan, and the Suliban would have been the "face" and footsoldiers of the Romulan War. The Suliban may even have been part of the Romulan Empire. Thus they could have a war with lots of fighting between humans and Suliban, with Romulans standing back in their big motherships making big cheesy proclamations like "Soon Earth will fall and Starfleet will be crushed!"

If that was the case, I'm glad they simply jettisoned the TWC, because that doesn't sound appealling to me at all.
 
I wish they had done more with it. That was a weak idea to carry through four seasons with so little development.
 
At first, I hated the temporal cold war, but at some point I started liking it. However, it doesn't seem to make sense to me.
Time travel stories, even the best ones, almost never make sense if you think about them too much.
For the other time travel stories in Trek, if you ignore the confusing time travel rules and internal inconsistencies, make sense. As stories. Sure, the time travel mechanisms are unexpected and implausible, but the stories themselves are fine.

The TCW doesn't make sense as a story, and I don't see the point in it. In other time travel stories, it served to put the characters in situations not possible otherwise, to confuse you, and to add to the fun. I can't recall one time travel story I didn't partially enjoy, and everywhere the time travel brought something to it.

Here I saw no reason for it. The only thing it accomplished it was to show us the 31rd century, which was only an excuse. Sure, I loved the end of Shockwave, Pt.1, and Archer arguing with T'Pol that time travel isn't possible, however that's hardly an excuse for the whole TCW arc.

But that's not the point of my thread, the point is that while it serves no point, the story also doesn't make sense. Why would anyone the 31rd century Federation care to change events that have been established centuries ago? There was no explanation why temporal agents from that far in the future were involved. Sure, there was one artefact from the 31rd century – the mysterious ship in Future Tense, but that's hardly enough to explain anything.
 
Daniels wasn't trying to change anything, he was trying to prevent, stop or minimize the damage done by other time travellers. His agenda was to make sure Archer lived to found the Federation in 2161 and that the timeline unfolded as closely to the way it "should" (i.e. the 22nd century in his history books) as possible.

What never made sense to me is that if Daniels has such power at his disposal (i.e. to bring the whole Enterprise back to WWII), why did he always need Archer to do the dirty work for him? Why not just use that power to, say, beam the alien Nazis into the sun?
 
I always thought Daniels had his own never-revealed agenda. He was very sneaky and manipulative, and never did fully answer the question of why the Suliban would save Enterprise. I like to think that's why Archer was always so suspicious of him; really, there was no reason for Archer NOT to say, huh, that's interesting - tell me what you want me to do. Instead, it was like Daniels irritated him, trying to push him in a particular direction, which he resisted. I think, deep down, Archer didn't think Daniels was in fact working for humanity's best interests. Stuff like, oh, the changes haven't rippled up the timeline (Carpenter Street) were so dumb he had to be lying.
 
^ Dangit people, stop talking about time travel like it's an H. G. Wells novel. It's more complicated than that. :p
I'm sorry about that, I tried to educate myself, but unfortunately when I travelled to the future to borrow a book on time travel theory I found that I'm the one who wrote the book after reading it and the changes hadn't reached the library yet.
 
Stuff like, oh, the changes haven't rippled up the timeline (Carpenter Street) were so dumb he had to be lying.

Especially after they rippled up “instantly” in Shockwave.
Actually that's what bothered me the most about the Temporal Cold War stories on Enterprise: The didn't even makes sense with one another. It was all too inconsistent and they obviously never figured out themselves what they really wanted to do with these stories.
 
agreed on inconsistent. shockwave part II was too conveniently solved, and Daniels wasn't used right throughout the series. interesting idea, but not governed by the writers. could've been better.
 
I wish they had done more with it. That was a weak idea to carry through four seasons with so little development.
I would have preferred to see it vanish as part of the end of the Xindi arc. Then we wouldn't have been subjected to the Trek Nazis episodes that wasted precious time in the truncated fourth season.

We might even have gotten a decent homecoming arc at the opening of season 4.
 
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