Does Star Trek II make a good sequel to...Star Trek?

[Sketcher]

After watching the 2009 film and then TWOK it occurred to me that the latter kinda works as a sequel. You have several themes that run through both films - friendship, revenge, a father-son relationship, death, as well as the Kobayashi Maru test playing large parts in both parts. Has anyone else watched both films back-to-back and drawn similar conclusions.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Well, TWOK is one of the favorite Trek movies, if not the favorite, of at least one of Star Trek's writers.

People who are looking for something to complain about make a great deal of the Star Wars influence in this movie, but it's far more significant that it's the first Trek project managed and created in significant part by people who grew up with Trek movies like TWOK and the TNG TV series as their earliest exposure to Star Trek, rather than TOS.

 

[Lord Garth]

After watching the 2009 film and then TWOK it occurred to me that the latter kinda works as a sequel. You have several themes that run through both films - friendship, revenge, a father-son relationship, death, as well as the Kobayashi Maru test playing large parts in both parts. Has anyone else watched both films back-to-back and drawn similar conclusions.

ST XI can work as a spiritual prequel to TWOK, even if not a literal one.

 

[Nero's Shadow]

After watching the 2009 film and then TWOK it occurred to me that the latter kinda works as a sequel. You have several themes that run through both films - friendship, revenge, a father-son relationship, death, as well as the Kobayashi Maru test playing large parts in both parts. Has anyone else watched both films back-to-back and drawn similar conclusions.

I agree many same themes from the 2009 film and TWOK. I think when they released TMP it was a new era for the star trek fan, but when u watch TWOK things had changed again sets,uniforms and the story.

I loved how revenge in TWOK can make a great film and story. Yes I agree the 2009 film had some flaws but to me it is a great film havin loss and revenge in a film should always make it good.?

 

[Xavier_Storma]

Well, both films have in common that they use stereotype one-dimentsonal bad guys, who are vicious just for the sake of being vicious... (Khan being the comic book bad guy, who would fit into a Superman comic better than into Trek and... what did Nero have against Spock or the Vulcans again? The people who tried to SAVE his homeworld).

From an artistic point of view, TWOK is far superior! You can watch it without getting a headache, and the dialogues are much more mature.

 

[Devon]

Well, both films have in common that they use stereotype one-dimentsonal bad guys, who are vicious just for the sake of being vicious... (Khan being the comic book bad guy, who would fit into a Superman comic better than into Trek and... what did Nero have against Spock or the Vulcans again? The people who tried to SAVE his homeworld)

From an artistic point of view, TWOK is far superior!

You can watch it without getting a headache, and the dialogues are much more mature.

So does Star Trek II make a good sequel to Star Trek? Yes or no?

 

[Xavier_Storma]

Well, both films have in common that they use stereotype one-dimentsonal bad guys, who are vicious just for the sake of being vicious... (Khan being the comic book bad guy, who would fit into a Superman comic better than into Trek and... what did Nero have against Spock or the Vulcans again? The people who tried to SAVE his homeworld)

From an artistic point of view, TWOK is far superior!

You can watch it without getting a headache, and the dialogues are much more mature.

So does Star Trek II make a good sequel to Star Trek? Yes or no?

Defineatly not! While TWOK aims at a more intellectual audience, with dialogues and a coherent plot; XI is more mainstream with SFX overblending a plotholed-filed storyline.

In fact TWOK is not even a coherent sequel to TMP, since it changes the direction of the franchise completely. It was defineatly unexpected back in the 80ies...

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

From an artistic point of view, TWOK is far superior! You can watch it without getting a headache, and the dialogues are much more mature.

Wrong, and wrong.

 

[Landed]

From an artistic point of view, TWOK is far superior! You can watch it without getting a headache, and the dialogues are much more mature.

Wrong, and wrong.

Perhaps you'd care to elaborate?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

From an artistic point of view, TWOK is far superior! You can watch it without getting a headache, and the dialogues are much more mature.

Wrong, and wrong.

Perhaps you'd care to elaborate?

All over the board.

 

[T'Girl]

TWOK is a much better sequel to the body of work that is TOS, than the two hour event of ST Eleven. Prime Kirk is shown several time being magnanimous and showing mercy to his opponents, nuKirk twice fires on defenseless opponents. In Space Seed, Kirk defeated Khan and then he stopped, in a movie with nuKirk, Khan would likely be killed by nuKirk. NuKirk wouldn't have the opportunity to maroon Khan.

David Marcus was major part of TWOK, he would seem to have been conceived when Kirk was approximately 25 or 26 years, being so newly in command of the Enterprise, when is nuKirk going to find the time? David wasn't the product of a one night stand, Carol and Kirk had a substantial relationship. Plus Carol isn't some green bimbo, Kirk was a thoughtful man, nuKirk is a jackass punk, do you honestly think Carol Marcus is going to (deliberately) conceive a child with nuKirk?

 

[Gojira]

While I think both movies are excellent Trek movies and Trek XI plays a nice homage to TWOK I don't see it working as a direct sequel to Trek XI. For me the updated special effects and the way overall different looks of each movie makes it difficult for me to link them together.

 

[JarodRussell]

Wrong, and wrong.

Perhaps you'd care to elaborate?

All over the board.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

TWOK is a much better sequel to the body of work that is TOS, than the two hour event of ST Eleven.

But JJTrek is a better movie, without reference to TOS or any other Trek.

 

[Captrek]

what did Nero have against Spock or the Vulcans again?

It’s not rational, but he has gone insane with grief and needs to blame and get revenge against somebody. Who is a better candidate than Spock and the Vulcans?

If I remember the Countdown comic correctly, Spock came up with the plan to use the red matter to contain the Hobus Supernova and had to get the red matter from Vulcan. There was debate on Vulcan about whether it was wise to give the red matter to the hostile Romulans and even about whether the Hobus threat was real. Nero might then blame the Vulcans for talking too long and acting too late.

I’m sure somebody who knows Countdown much more than I will correct (or verify?) me.

 

[kkozoriz1]

Then why not take your huge ship and try to save some people?

 

[Devon]

Then why not take your huge ship and try to save some people?

Nero says he's doing to do that explicitly in the film. He had 100+ years to do it too.

 

[kkozoriz1]

Why not actually save his wife before she goes boom?

 

[JarodRussell]

TWOK is a much better sequel to the body of work that is TOS, than the two hour event of ST Eleven.

But JJTrek is a better movie, without reference to TOS or any other Trek.

Wrong.

 

[Sparky]

Why not actually save his wife before she goes boom?

That question makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.