Does Spock/Uhura take away from Kirk/Spock?

[Agenda]

I personally enjoy the relationship between Spock and Uhura. Moreover, I'm not into slash fiction (there's nothing wrong with it - it just doesn't float my boat).

However, I'm not talking about Kirk/Spock in terms of sex, but rather in terms of a deep friendship. I recall this scene in Ben-Hur where he and Messala are talking at the beginning and then they begin arguing and it's almost like they're lovers. Even though they're (at least most likely) completely heterosexual characters, that's how the filmmakers got the audience to believe that the two characters really held a deep bond, and all the bad things that happen between them henceforth is a big deal.

I think that scene reminds me of the Kirk/Spock. Like sometimes with the way they talk and act around each other, you get the sense that there could be more between them. But it's more likely they're just really close...though not that close, if you know what I mean.

In the series, it's really Kirk and, to a lesser extent, McCoy who are substitutes for a female presence in Spock's life; if he's having problems, he talks to them, not to Uhura or to Chapel, etc. In the movie, why is her going to go talk to Kirk when he has an adoring soul mate already? How are they going to form that extraordinarily strong bond when his bond with Uhura is that much deeper?

 

[Greg Cox]

However, I'm not talking about Kirk/Spock in terms of sex, but rather in terms of a deep friendship. I recall this scene in Ben-Hur where he and Messala are talking at the beginning and then they begin arguing and it's almost like they're lovers. Even though they're (at least most likely) completely heterosexual characters, that's how the filmmakers got the audience to believe that the two characters really held a deep bond, and all the bad things that happen between them henceforth is a big deal.

?

As I recall, the director told the actor playing Messala to play the scene as though Ben-Hur and Messala were lovers, but not to tell Charlton Heston about it!

 

[Tribbles]

This is an interesting question and one I hadn't really considered. I think it depends on the writers, really. I think there can simultaneously exist a strong romance and a strong friendship; the comparison may not be especially apt since it is a television show and a comedy, but I'm thinking specifically of the characters from Scrubs. Turk and JD are clearly best friends, brothers almost, but Turk and Carla's relationship is also explored. I realize Star Trek is not a TV show at this point, but if Spock and Uhura remain a very small subplot, I don't think they'll interfere with Kirk/Spock bonding.

Now if the writers have the very unfortunate idea of creating a love triangle, Kirk/Spock will face problems not only because of less screentime to develop their bond, but also because of a new reason for a rift. I really hope they don't go this way!

 

[Oceanborn_angel]

I think J.J. Abrams has single handedly dashed a lot of Spock/Kirk Slash Fic writers dreams....and I'm happy about it! Now if only we could see an appearance of Lieutenant Mary Sue in one of the movies I'll be happy.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Hell no. We all know who Spock's One True Love is.

Ok I'll try to be serious for a sec. It's an interesting pairing because of the direction they are probably going to push Spock in this new timeline, challenging his emotional composure far more than ever happened with Spock Prime. The destruction of his world and his people, plus having a "real" romantic relationship, is a one-two punch to the ole logic fetish.

Simultaneously, we will see the development of Kirk and Spock's friendship. Since Kirk, too, is on an all-new arc (from wild child to competent Starfleet officer), there's no telling how all this will go. Do we even know they'll end up liking each other? Well, probably. If Abrams & co decide differently, it will be torches & pitchforks outside their offices...but the road could be quite a bit rockier than we presume, with serious conflicts between them to a greater extent than in the Prime universe.

Here's one possibility: Spock really starts to lose it vs. the Romulans. Kirk, otoh, showed inklings of responsibility, maturity and compassion at the end of Trek XI, which he will continue to grow into. Is he going to have to restrain Spock's ire? Will Uhura be a help or a hindrance in this (help, I would hope). Kirk and Uhura might end up as allies vis a vis keeping Spock from damaging his career and his sense of morality.

Can't wait to see what happens next!

 

[urbandk]

Well, I for one am interested in Kirk-Bones-Spock. But I don't think the Spock-Bones-Uhura storyline should interfere.

 

[Sector 7]

In the series, it's really Kirk and, to a lesser extent, McCoy who are substitutes for a female presence in Spock's life; if he's having problems, he talks to them, not to Uhura or to Chapel, etc. In the movie, why is he going to go talk to Kirk when he has an adoring soul mate already? How are they going to form that extraordinarily strong bond when his bond with Uhura is that much deeper?

This is a valid point, Beyond Antares. It is one I had not considered. JJ said his intent was to show how the bond between Kirk, Spock and McCoy started. I hope this romance with Uhura (I do not really approve of it) does not change this. Perhaps they will track Spock's struggle to cope with/suppress his emotions while pursuing a relationship with Uhura, but I'd rather they spend the time developing his deep friendship with Kirk.

 

[Agenda]

I think J.J. Abrams has single handedly dashed a lot of Spock/Kirk Slash Fic writers dreams....and I'm happy about it!

If you go visit fanfiction.net, you'll find that's not the case of all. Nothing can stop Kirk/Spock. Nothing.

 

[Sabataage]

This is an interesting question and one I hadn't really considered. I think it depends on the writers, really. I think there can simultaneously exist a strong romance and a strong friendship; the comparison may not be especially apt since it is a television show and a comedy, but I'm thinking specifically of the characters from Scrubs. Turk and JD are clearly best friends, brothers almost, but Turk and Carla's relationship is also explored. I realize Star Trek is not a TV show at this point, but if Spock and Uhura remain a very small subplot, I don't think they'll interfere with Kirk/Spock bonding.

Now if the writers have the very unfortunate idea of creating a love triangle, Kirk/Spock will face problems not only because of less screentime to develop their bond, but also because of a new reason for a rift. I really hope they don't go this way!

Seth Bullock and Sol Star from Deadwood are also a great example of male friendship in the face of romantic entanglements. The two characters couldn't be more different and yet they complimented each other perfectly. While Sol stayed out of Seth and Alma's affair (only acting as go-between later on) their friendship got interesting when Sol started seeing the whore Trixie who despised Bullock.

Seth and Trixie wound up sharing Sol's company separately: as Bullock entered the room to talk to Star, Trixie would make an excuse to leave, often muttering "cocksuker" as she exited. If in turn she walked in on the two of them, Seth would politely excuse himself and nod as they passed liked they were changing shifts . While they understandably dowplayed the comic potential of that arrangement (Bullock was a gentleman after all, or at least played himself as one) Star Trek could have a lot of fun with that in the future and avoid the pitfalls of giving these people a ridiculous love triangle.

There's some evidence of that possibility already. I interpreted Kirk's nod to Uhura on the trasporter pad as a moment where he treats her not as potential love interest but as crewmember under his command -in a relationship that would require his blessing in order for it to continue. If he had a line of dialogue for the look he gave her it probably have been something awkward and affected "Carry on, Lieutenant."

While I'm not so much concerned about Spock and Uhura's relationship getting in the way of Kirk and Spock's dynamic, am worried about McCoy and where fits into all this. His role in the original was very much the emotional balance to Spock's logic. Traditionally in shows since Star Trek, that type of role (that voice) is usually played by an actress. With Spock in a relationship it might mean McCoy is reduced to the grumpy naysayer (like he is in the latter half of XI by the way) with Uhura acting as the touchy feely balance to Spock's coldness and stoicism.

 

[davejames]

It's funny, I've always just assumed Kirk and Spock were close friends all the way up through the movies. But after watching a lot of TOS recently, I don't really see much of that at all.

Other than the ocassional "Jim" from Spock, or a chess game here or there, my impression from TOS was that they were basically just professional acquaintances. Kirk was friendly in a coworker kind of way (kidding around with him and such), but that friendship didn't seem NEAR as deep as the one between Kirk and McCoy.

Granted there's the "no emotions" thing, but even allowing for that I don't see a ton of examples of this so-called close friendship between the two.

 

[urbandk]

It's funny, I've always just assumed Kirk and Spock were close friends all the way up through the movies. But after watching a lot of TOS recently, I don't really see much of that at all.

Other than the ocassional "Jim" from Spock, or a chess game here or there, my impression from TOS was that they were basically just professional acquaintances. Kirk was friendly in a coworker kind of way (kidding around with him and such), but that friendship didn't seem NEAR as deep as the one between Kirk and McCoy.

Granted there's the "no emotions" thing, but even allowing for that I don't see a ton of examples of this so-called close friendship between the two.

yeah seems as though TMP and TWOK retconned that.

 

[JustKate]

What???

I have to disagree. I always got a feeling of close friendship between Spock and Kirk, and I got it looooooooooong before there were such things as Trek movies. Always. The most obvious sign (aside from Spock's comments that Kirk is his friend and Kirk that Spock is his, something which they both mention more than once during TOS) is that Kirk is the only person Spock calls by anything other than title and name, and he wouldn't do that if the friendship weren't close and mutual. The friendship between Kirk and McCoy was more obvious, but that's because McCoy is an out-there-in-the-open kind of guy, whereas Spock definitely is not.

What I never did really get, though, was much of a feeling of friendship between McCoy and Spock. I think I was supposed to - I think that's what all that TOS teasing was supposed to indicate - but it didn't work for me.

 

[iguana_tonante]

I just hope we are going to see a fight between Kirk and Uhura for Spock's affection. That would be an interesting take on Amok Time.

 

[davejames]

What???

I have to disagree. I always got a feeling of close friendship between Spock and Kirk, and I got it looooooooooong before there were such things as Trek movies. Always. The most obvious sign (aside from Spock's comments that Kirk is his friend, which he mentions more than once during TOS) is that Kirk is the only person Spock calls by anything other than title and name, and he wouldn't do that if the friendship weren't close and mutual. The friendship between Kirk and McCoy was more obvious, but that's because McCoy is an out-there-in-the-open kind of guy, whereas Spock definitely is not.

What I never did really get, though, was much of a feeling of friendship between McCoy and Spock. I think I was supposed to - I think that's what all that teasing was supposed to indicate - but it didn't work for me.

Yeah I know we were meant to ASSUME there was a close friendship there; I'm just saying I didn't see a whole lot of examples of it on screen. Certainly nothing as close as what the movies would have us believe.

In fact more often than not Kirk seems outright irritated by Spock in TOS. lol

 

[JustKate]

^ How many examples do you need? I'm not trying to be a smartass, I swear. I just always got the feeling...well, not from the very first episode, but starting really early, that these are two guys who matter to each other.

I really can't think of that many examples with Kirk and McCoy, either - but I still always knew that they were friends, too.

I mean, they are guys in a 1960s TV show. You expect them to hug? Share their innermost feelings? Because that is not going to happen!

 

[LeahBoBo]

It's funny, I've always just assumed Kirk and Spock were close friends all the way up through the movies. But after watching a lot of TOS recently, I don't really see much of that at all.

Other than the ocassional "Jim" from Spock, or a chess game here or there, my impression from TOS was that they were basically just professional acquaintances. Kirk was friendly in a coworker kind of way (kidding around with him and such), but that friendship didn't seem NEAR as deep as the one between Kirk and McCoy.

Granted there's the "no emotions" thing, but even allowing for that I don't see a ton of examples of this so-called close friendship between the two.

You know, I have to agree with this. The other night I was watching Turnabout Intruder and I never got the feeling that Spock was suspicious of Janice/Kirk because of a great friendship, but because of a great working relationship.

 

[urbandk]

I think there might have been a friendship to a certain degree between McCoy and Spock. Remember when Spock was dying from the parasite in "Operation - Annihilate," McCoy called him the best first officer in the fleet.

Perhaps all the friendships in question were more understated than they later would become but were nevertheless still present.

 

[Agenda]

C'mon people. There's numerous examples of Kirk/Spockiness. They heart each other.

In Whom Gods Destroy, Spock of all people admits Kirk is his brother.

And who can forget Spock's famous smile in Amok Time? I mean, you think he was just concerned about being court martialed?

And then there's the Naked Time. "Jim when I feel friendship for you I feel ashamed" or something.

And then there's all the clear innuendo about the depth of their feeling for one another in all those other episodes that I won't even mention here.

 

[urbandk]

C'mon people. There's numerous examples of Kirk/Spockiness. They heart each other.

In Whom Gods Destroy, Spock of all people admits Kirk is his brother.

And who can forget Spock's famous smile in Amok Time? I mean, you think he was just concerned about being court martialed?

And then there's the Naked Time. "Jim when I feel friendship for you I feel ashamed" or something.

And then there's all the clear innuendo about the depth of their feeling for one another in all those other episodes that I won't even mention here.

Good points.

 

[Nyxbel]

C'mon people. There's numerous examples of Kirk/Spockiness. They heart each other.

In Whom Gods Destroy, Spock of all people admits Kirk is his brother.

And who can forget Spock's famous smile in Amok Time? I mean, you think he was just concerned about being court martialed?

And then there's the Naked Time. "Jim when I feel friendship for you I feel ashamed" or something.

And then there's all the clear innuendo about the depth of their feeling for one another in all those other episodes that I won't even mention here.

You forgot the slashy motherload scene that started it all:

Shore Leave episode-- the "Backrub" Scene

Youtube it for maximum awesomeness!