Does Janeway hate Harry Kim?

[The Overlord]

Does Janeway hate Harry Kim for some reason? Harry Kim never got a promotion, he stayed an Ensign the whole 7 years he was on Voyager, Nog got a promotion before Harry did. Is there any reason why Harry was never promoted?

Also Janeway gave Harry a formal reprimand for getting a space STD. Worf had to kill Duras before he got a formal reprimand and Kirk seemed to sleep around all the time and never got punished. Heck Riker would occasionally sleep with some alien girls, he was never punished. Why is Harry being singled out here?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Harry was Janeway's special little ensign. I think she actually tells him he's her favourite in one episode. As his self-appointed surrogate mother, she probably didn't take kindly to the idea of her Harry sleeping around.

As for the Ensign thing - although he really should have been bumped to Lieutenant at some point (heck, Kirk and Uhura were lieutenants and they hadn't even graduated yet!) it's not like there was any room for promotion on Voyager unless someone died. Janeway could have flown a crew of Fleet Admirals but they'd still be doing the exact same jobs.

Enterprise's Hoshi never got a promotion, either (and their finale jumped six years!), and she saved everyone a few times.

 

[The Overlord]

Harry was Janeway's special little ensign. I think she actually tells him he's her favourite in one episode. As his self-appointed surrogate mother, she probably didn't take kindly to the idea of her Harry sleeping around.

That seems beyond Janeway's scope as captain. A good superior officer should not be dictating who those under her run their personal lives, that's their business.

And frankly this comes off as cruel rather then motherly, Harry Kim's career will likely be on the skids because of the reprimand, just because Janeway doesn't approve of his personal decisions. Harry could end up scrubbing toilets till he retires thanks to Janeway.

As for the Ensign thing - although he really should have been bumped to Lieutenant at some point (heck, Kirk and Uhura were lieutenants and they hadn't even graduated yet!) it's not like there was any room for promotion on Voyager unless someone died. Janeway could have flown a crew of Fleet Admirals but they'd still be doing the exact same jobs.

Enterprise's Hoshi never got a promotion, either (and their finale jumped six years!), and she saved everyone a few times.

There are tons of people who died on Voyager like Lt. Carey, you would think with their positions gone, Janeway could have promoted Harry. Torres was academy wash out and she got a battle field commission that was higher in rank then Harry's rank, that doesn't seem fair at all. A freaking terrorist gets promoted over Harry.

I still don't understand why Harry was present at the staff meetings though, he's an Ensign, considering Lt. Carey was in the running for chief engineer and had more experience then Harry, he would go to the staff meetings instead. Its almost like Janeway decided to she to keep Harry Kim in striking distance at all times or Janeway randomly decided Harry would be "King of the Ensigns."

And frankly Hoshi not getting promoted just makes Archer look like a jerk too, rather then making Janeway looking good.

 

[Guy Gardener]

What's insane about Hoshi is that her students sat around for ten years waiting for her to come back so they could finish their course... Unless she just assumed they were waiting for her and they hadn't all gotten double doctorates in the interim and could now teach her a thing or two.

Janeway laughs at Kim when he says that he would have been a Lieutenant Commander by season 6 if he had stayed in the AQ.

Janeway laughs at Chakotay when he says that kim built stellarmetrics because it's unthinkable that the kid can even tie his shoe laces.

But really, it's difficult to hate some one you have no respect for.

 

[milo bloom]

I still don't understand why Harry was present at the staff meetings though, he's an Ensign, considering Lt. Carey was in the running for chief engineer and had more experience then Harry, he would go to the staff meetings instead.

This whole subject comes up fairly often and it's this aspect of that seems to bother me the most. There seems to be this perception that an Ensign is just some schlub off the street that can manage to breathe and push a button at the same time. An ensign is an academy graduated officer, trained in ship's operations and duties. While they're pretty green when it comes to overall experience, they do have book knowledge and that does count for something.

I realize it's jarring for a lot of viewers to go from having Data as a Lt. Commander and second officer of the Enterprise at the position to a fresh out of the academy kid like Kim, but I'd wager Data was out of the norm, not Kim. Think about anytime on TNG when we see some no-name ensign at Ops when Data isn't there, or even Geordi and Worf swapping out there in the first season (and they were Lieutenant jg's, just a step above ensign).

As for being part of the senior staff, it's a bridge position. And the precedent goes all the way back to TOS with Chekov being included in briefings and landing parties. I believe even Wesley was considered senior staff once Picard gave him the full field commission to ensign and put him in a regular uniform.

Senior staff doesn't just mean "the oldest people" on the ship, otherwise the 83 year old Lt Commander who is happily puttering away in the astronomy department would be in charge of the ship. "Senior staff" refers to the staff that the captain has chosen to be the alpha shift bridge officers/department heads. And Janeway chose Kim.

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

Frankly, I think the better question would be "Did the writers hate Harry Kim - and by extension, Garrett Wang?" He was the least developed, least changed character in a series that couldn't exactly claim character development as its strong suit. Lack of promotion aside, can anyone honestly tell me how season 7 Harry was different from season 1 Harry? Really, the only episode I saw him shine in was the one where he and Tom were in a prison together. They did do a good job of developing that friendship/bromance. Otherwise ... Harry was blah.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

You know, promotions take a good amount of time anyway. For the amount of years humanoids seem to live in the Trek universe, 7 years is a drop in the bucket as far as time goes. For all we know, it could take a decade before one is even considered for a promotion.

 

[JRoss]

Janeway treated Kim better than Kirk treated Sulu.

 

[F. King Daniel]

You know, promotions take a good amount of time anyway. For the amount of years humanoids seem to live in the Trek universe, 7 years is a drop in the bucket as far as time goes. For all we know, it could take a decade before one is even considered for a promotion.

Tell that to Chris Pine's Kirk.

Or, for a less totally insane example, I think Nog ended DS9 as a lieutenant, five years after starting the academy.

 

[Smellincoffee]

Nog may have had better luck climbing the ranks, but the situation mandated it. The Federation was at war, and he was in the thick of it. Not only were positions constantly opening up, but the ranks were continually expanding. More ships and more crewmen meant more officers to manage both -- not to that mention battlefield heroics are more noticeable than seven years of able service. Harry's got nowhere to go. Sure, Janeway could make him a lieutenant, but what does that mean for a ship stranded years from home with a smallish crew?

 

[Guy Gardener]

It would mean less people on top of him and more people underneath.

Finite resources.

Who thinks replicator rations and holodeck time, hells quarters square footage was distributed fairly more so than proportionate to rank, especially after somehow replicator rations turned into currency which goes rearendedly against the "philosophy" of self improvement, which values sacrifice of the individual for the benefit of the race above self-interest which by extension covers "capitalism" ...Humans back in the AQ might be revolted by the behaviour of Voyagers crew observing a fall into barbarism.

Harry Kim is a section head who probably has a few Non commissioned officers/enlisted crewmen he has direct supervision of and cherry picks from other departments when needs must by horse trading with the other section heads.

Paris is a section head who has probably a few noncoms under his direct command and a few ensigns and maybe even a lieutenant or two, but everyone wants to drive the ship. Driving is cool. So half the crew at any time are begging to be let in on his roster shift rotation duty shift assignments which he has to write up and submit to the XO. (Logically, when Tom was busted down to Esign, some one should have been promoted and made into his boss, and then been unserimoniously reduced to Paris' subordinate again.)

B'Elanna is a section head in charge of half the fracking crew, but just a section head nether the less and in a meeting with the captain she isn't any more important than harry at the table just because her section is considerably more impressive than Harrys and she probably needs a few lieutenants under her belt to keep her staff wrangled.

Basically a Secition head has a degree of autocracy over whatever section they run within reason that they are still answerable to the chain of command but perhaps ever officers of a superior rank have to bow to section authority, like in the case of a Doctor or O'Brien bossing around even commanders who try to mess with his tools.

If Harry was promoted, he would have been of too magnificent a rank suddenly to hold down a lowly position like operations, since merely an Ensign could facilitate that post. To be put into another section, Harry would be a drone answerable to another section head and never be invited back to the captains conference table unless there was a mission that was specifically about clarinets or being a cheesy suckup.

 

[Angel4576]

Why is Harry being singled out here?

Probably because he's a muppet.

 

[USS Triumphant]

<looks at thread title>

No. Because Janeway is dead.

 

[Smellincoffee]

<looks at thread title>

No. Because Janeway is dead.

She's not dead, she's restin'. With Q.

 

[The Overlord]

You know, promotions take a good amount of time anyway. For the amount of years humanoids seem to live in the Trek universe, 7 years is a drop in the bucket as far as time goes. For all we know, it could take a decade before one is even considered for a promotion.

Except by the Star Trek Generations both Worf and Troi had been promoted to commander, so clearly it does take a decade to get a promotion.

 

[Guy Gardener]

We saw how promotion works in lower decks

TROI: But Carstairs is better with people. Considering this is a supervisory position, I'd go with her.
RIKER: I guess you're right. Didn't we just do crew evaluation reports?
TROI: Three months ago.
RIKER: It seems like three weeks. Why don't we just give everybody a promotion and call it a night, Commander?
TROI: Fine with me, Captain.

The XO (Who's job is section head of the crew/manpower... What do you think Riker and Chuckles did all day? Sit there patiently waiting to say "SHIELDS UP!"?) and the Counsellor(Voyager doesn't have a Counsellor.) meet up every three months for crew evaluations. Some times that results in promotion, some times it results in duty shuffling to an easier or harder department which is either a half demotion or a half promotion, actually it would take one would think excellence in several sections to stand out and be worthy of promotion since doing your job is doing your job and you only get promoted if they think you have more to offer... Reverse that for demotion and transfers to other ships and even out right grounding.)

Harry Kim failed to impress through out 28 crew evaluations to deem worthy of a different more "trying" position on the ship or promotion...

Even Tapestry Picard, a 60 year old lieutenant knew that he had to transfer into security or some where where he wasn't "safe" if he wanted to get command of a Starship.

Kim just sat in the same chair for 7 years... I was going to say rotting, but rooting sounds better unless you're from the southern hemisphere where rooting is another word for fornicating... He was a beginning character who never ever bothered to level up and yet was baffled why he couldn't take down a boss.

 

[The Overlord]

We saw how promotion works in lower decks

TROI: But Carstairs is better with people. Considering this is a supervisory position, I'd go with her.
RIKER: I guess you're right. Didn't we just do crew evaluation reports?
TROI: Three months ago.
RIKER: It seems like three weeks. Why don't we just give everybody a promotion and call it a night, Commander?
TROI: Fine with me, Captain.

The XO (Who's job is section head of the crew/manpower... What do you think Riker and Chuckles did all day? Sit there patiently waiting to say "SHIELDS UP!"?) and the Counsellor(Voyager doesn't have a Counsellor.) meet up every three months for crew evaluations. Some times that results in promotion, some times it results in duty shuffling to an easier or harder department which is either a half demotion or a half promotion, actually it would take one would think excellence in several sections to stand out and be worthy of promotion since doing your job is doing your job and you only get promoted if they think you have more to offer... Reverse that for demotion and transfers to other ships and even out right grounding.)

Harry Kim failed to impress through out 28 crew evaluations to deem worthy of a different more "trying" position on the ship or promotion...

Even Tapestry Picard, a 60 year old lieutenant knew that he had to transfer into security or some where where he wasn't "safe" if he wanted to get command of a Starship.

Kim just sat in the same chair for 7 years... I was going to say rotting, but rooting sounds better unless you're from the southern hemisphere where rooting is another word for fornicating... He was a beginning character who never ever bothered to level up and yet was baffled why he couldn't take down a boss.

So was Harry Kim just a character who would never go anywhere? If that is so, why was he a member of the main cast?

 

[bigdaddy]

Yes, everyone hates Harry Kim.

 

[Guy Gardener]

So was Harry Kim just a character who would never go anywhere? If that is so, why was he a member of the main cast?

Kim was 20.

Same age as Wesley.

In Theory, if you grew up identifying with that kid on the Enterprise (before you knew better) who was the same age as you, here was this other guy now also the same age as you just entering the work force the same as you surrounded by bastards and vampires the same as you.

You identify with how dwarfed he is by his outrageous circumstances because if you are twenty also trying to find footing in this wild world YOU ARE HARRY KIM.

He was Mary Tyler Moore on her first day at the TV Station(What was Mary on her last day? Serious question. I live in a country that doesn';t rerun even new stuff... Holy shit! She's dating Lou Grant and then new owners fire everyone!? That kicks ass compared to Endgame.) We were supposed to grow with him as he took his licks.

Learnt from his mistakes.

But he didn't grow or learn.

He wallowed like a manchild proud of his naivety and innocence which was only needed in the beginning to make Tom look like a bad ass because he's hanging out with Oopie.

Riker was XO of the Flag ship by the time he was 27, it would be a miracle if Kim was Lieutenant by the time he was 37... Of course people inuniverse were making the same complaints about a 28 years old Riker who turning down his own Captaincies to rest at Picards feet like a dog.

 

[T.D. Possum]

Out of roughly 150 officers and crew, Janeway gave one promotion - Tuvok. I don't think she hates Harry or any of the other 148 people.