Does it even make sense for TNG Klingons to occupy foreign territory?

[Mudang Harada]

I am talking about the TNG Klingons, not the TOS ones with the smooth foreheads.

Do they do a lot of traditional stuff that occupiers do: finding a Quisling, getting some locals onboard and giveing them weapons, making up propaganda to justify the occupation...?
From a purely philiosophical POV wouldn't it make more sense to stick to their territory or to slaughter everyone in enemy territory and colonize it? They don't seem to have the right mentality for any sort of long term occupation. it would surprize me if they would arm some of their own neighbours fo provide a bigger challenge or primitive species they would discover.

Thoughts?

 

[T'Girl]

Re: Does it even make sense for TNG Klingons to occupy foreign territo

Wrote a fan fic once where the Klingons would invade a species, fight and defeat them, after which the Klingon forces would basically just leave.

After several decades to allow the species to rebuild themselves, the Klingons would return do it again to the same species. It wasn't about acquiring territory, it was more "the sport" of battle.

Catch and release.

.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Re: Does it even make sense for TNG Klingons to occupy foreign territo

What we know of the Klingon 'Glory days' suggested they may have just wiped out entire cities.

 

[Timo]

Re: Does it even make sense for TNG Klingons to occupy foreign territo

Well, we saw "Errand of Mercy". Kor didn't have unlimited resources, so he made do with being suitably ruthless. Eliminating the locals would have been rather trivially accomplished nevertheless - no need to waste sidearm power packs or the Klingon-hours of his troops, just blast the one city to glass from orbit and then conquer the planet. But Kor opted to keep the locals, perhaps for labor, perhaps for the sport of conquest, and then used pretty classic occupation tactics.

We also saw "Mind's Eye", where a Klingon colony of unknown ethnicity rebelled. Whether or not Klingon conquest is genocidal, it seems they have to deal with "occupational hazards" such as uprisings anyway. So again one would expect classic tactics of intimidation, uneven treatment, drafting of loyal agents, competitive exploitation etc.

That the Klingon Empire would wish to expand, we can only speculate upon. When they fight over territory, it's that boring old Archanis over and over and over again... I rather like John Ford's old komerex vs. khesterex thing, though: Klingons would believe in the glory of conquest enough to make it their one and only religion, foreign policy and economics doctrine.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mudang Harada]

Re: Does it even make sense for TNG Klingons to occupy foreign territo

What we know of the Klingon 'Glory days' suggested they may have just wiped out entire cities.

What is your source?

 

[Melakon]

Re: Does it even make sense for TNG Klingons to occupy foreign territo

Since Klingon worlds generally are not resource rich, expansion would seem a logical development. They don't seem particularly adept at diplomacy, economics, or trade.

If you wanted to limit this to TNG era Klingons, why did you post this in General Discussion?

 

[Mudang Harada]

Re: Does it even make sense for TNG Klingons to occupy foreign territo

ENT Klingons were like that too and the DS 9 ones and the post-Nemesis Lit Klingons.

 

[eyeresist]

Re: Does it even make sense for TNG Klingons to occupy foreign territo

Klingons are pretty xenophobic, so when invading populated areas genocide and enslavement would be their main approach. But using an army for this kind of thing inevitably requires a huge bureaucracy, which they would certainly find onerous. There is little honour in being a prison guard. So I imagine Klingons would prefer the challenge of colonising previously uninhabited worlds.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: Does it even make sense for TNG Klingons to occupy foreign territo

Klingons are pretty xenophobic, so when invading populated areas genocide and enslavement would be their main approach. But using an army for this kind of thing inevitably requires a huge bureaucracy, which they would certainly find onerous. There is little honour in being a prison guard. So I imagine Klingons would prefer the challenge of colonising previously uninhabited worlds.

You've seen "Errand of Mercy", right?

 

[Mudang Harada]

Re: Does it even make sense for TNG Klingons to occupy foreign territo

We are talking about the ones with ridges.

 

[Ithekro]

Re: Does it even make sense for TNG Klingons to occupy foreign territo

Klingons are Klingons.

 

[Timo]

Re: Does it even make sense for TNG Klingons to occupy foreign territo

"Errand of Mercy" is significant in more levels than one. It shows that Klingons during an ongoing military campaign have a strategic need to control Class M worlds, even primitive ones. And when would the Empire not have an ongoing campaign? Thus, conquest and occupation of alien worlds would seem to be part and parcel of the Klingon lifestyle after all.

Whether this would then be followed by exploitation, as with the Cardassians mining Bajor bare, we don't know - we haven't heard of comparable Klingon exploits yet. It might make sense if the Empire is resource-starved, like the Cardassian Union is reputed to be, but we haven't actually learned that the Empire would be short on anything at any of the timepoints we have witnessed. Conquest and control of worlds might be necessary solely for the purposes of managing further conquest.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ithekro]

Re: Does it even make sense for TNG Klingons to occupy foreign territo

What we know from Sherman's Planet is that the Klingons, though brutal, are most efficient in managing a planet.

 

[Timo]

Re: Does it even make sense for TNG Klingons to occupy foreign territo

Yup - and it would be interesting to know the exact situation at Sherman's. Was it an empty world, a human colony, a Klingon colony, a joint colony, or a third party colony or homeworld? Why was it a competition piece? Had it already been subject to violent competition between the two powers, or was it picked for some other reason? Were the Organians somehow involved in this?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[bbailey861]

Re: Does it even make sense for TNG Klingons to occupy foreign territo

Klingons are Klingons.

I agree with this. There is no questions Klingons like to conquer and I think it is unrealistic to limit yourself to one series over the other. I'd argue you should even branch out farther and continue to learn more about their need and desires for conquest by reading some of the books. I think can they add a lot of material about Klingons because IIRC they specifically deal with the "Jeghpu'wI" - conquered people.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Re: Does it even make sense for TNG Klingons to occupy foreign territo

What we know of the Klingon 'Glory days' suggested they may have just wiped out entire cities.

What is your source?

Rules of Engagement, the holo-program ends with Worf giving the order to kill everybody in the city.

 

[USS KG5]

Re: Does it even make sense for TNG Klingons to occupy foreign territo

When we think occupier, we tend to think Nazis in WW2, rather than the better examples of the Roman Empire, the British Empire, or heck even the modern US of A.

The Klingons basically have military hegemony over a large area, sure they might like to fight and conquer but only when it is "glorious" and mostly they seem pretty happy fighting each other. Simply overseeing and running planets, not that different from the Feds, probably does the trick.

The differences would likely lie in the absence of representation, or the freedom to deal with other races, maybe a bit of tax for the empire. It is quite possible to be an imperial or hegenomic force without a full scale occupation.

I'm not saying the Klingons dont fight and conquer, like the British Empire every once in a while a colony will build a molehill you need to kick over and keep the natives in line, but they arent necessarily moustache twirling villains.

Remember, as cuddly as they seem, Starfleet still show up saying "hey lets be pals, you can join our trading and political block, its cool if you don't but our massive military controls all the space surrounding your solar system, so good luck with that".

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Re: Does it even make sense for TNG Klingons to occupy foreign territo

The 19th Century British Empire was much worse than a 'Mustache twirling' villain. They invaded China just so they could sell opium there.

At least the mustache twirling villains admit they're willing to murder people for their own benefit.

The Klingons, by TNG time, had probably stopped invading defenseless planets, opting for more militaristic enemies like the Rommies or the Cardies. But they still had all kinds of conquered planets of people who didn't have the power to fight back. And the Federation probably just kinda ignored it cause they wanted the alliance, the same way the US ignores when its allies oppress women.

 

[USS KG5]

Re: Does it even make sense for TNG Klingons to occupy foreign territo

The 19th Century British Empire was much worse than a 'Mustache twirling' villain. They invaded China just so they could sell opium there.

At least the mustache twirling villains admit they're willing to murder people for their own benefit.

They invaded China to re open a trade route, if the Chinese hadnt been fussy over what they were willing to trade for tea it wouldnt have happened. Im not saying either the Klingons or Brits were cuddly, but generally they were not the Nazis, the Brits were never as bad as the Belgians in the Congo for example.

Id actually say the Opium wars as a perfect example of the way force was used by the Brits and by extension the Klingons, yes the cuddly Feds would walk away but the empires would not put up with such a kick to the teeth. Imagine a Klingon response to the trigger to the opium wars, the arrest of empire sponsored merchants?