Do you think that Enterprise did a good job in building to the Romulan War, even without S5?

[FederationHistorian]

I had made this post in the PIC forum, in the Let’s talk about the destruction of Trek utopia thread, where the behaviour of the Vulcans during ENT came up again.

Well, at the time of the Terra Prime incident, Archer did not know that the Romulans were pulling the strings of the Vulcans. He only knew of the Romulans trying to divide future Federation members apart; not just the future founding members, but future members in the Rigelians as well. And of the Vulcans historically having enormous influence over less powerful governments such as Earth, Coridan, & Agaron while also having open diplomatic channels with the Klingon Empire, assisting in the Interspecies Medical Exchange, not helping out in the Xindi crisis, and that the Vulcans had their own Prime Directive that neither he or Starfleet wanted to follow. And that relations between Earth and Vulcan was about to change after the discovery of the Kir’Shara, as the Vulcans were no longer going to have a paternalistic presence over them. Change was also imminent between the Vulcans and Andorians after decades of conflict.

The idea of there being a puppetmaster (Romulans) behind the puppetmaster (Vulcans) never occurred to him. Can’t blame him, or his contemporaries, for not thinking that. And we have no idea if V’Las being a puppet of the Romulan government ever came to light during Archer’s time. I would imagine that revelation would have significant ramifications throughout the Alpha Quadrant at that time.

When I think about it, ENT did a far better job at building towards the Romulan War than I had realized. Since it tells a story of an empire secretly attempting to manipulate and hamper Earth's early exploration efforts. And that while the Vulcans were blamed for stalling Earth's progress, it was actually the Romulans that were responsible.

From Vulcans withholding information from humans to the Vulcan-Andorian conflict to the United Earth embassy bombing, the Romulans have subtly had their fingerprints on everything, since they were able to influence the head of the Vulcan government. And therefore, direct policy in regards to the astropolitical scene.

Considering that the plan for S5 was more Romulan antagonism in the lead up to the war, and those plans clearly never came to fruition, do you think that the series handled the build towards the Earth-Romulan War well enough to your liking? Or could it have been done better?

 

[F. King Daniel]

I remember I wasn't happy with all the retconning they did with the Romulans, giving them cloaking devices long before "Balance of Terror" explicitly made it a new thing. Also the idea of "primitive space vessels" using nuclear weapons? Nah, the Romulans and Starfleet pretty much already have all the tech they'd have in all future Treks. Even the classic Romulan Bird of Prey was given a 24th-century visual makeover.

I also recall thinking around season 1 that they'd reveal the Suliban as part of the Romulan Star Empire, and that they'd probably be the "face" of the war and I still wonder if that was ever considered.

 

[FederationHistorian]

I remember I wasn't happy with all the retconning they did with the Romulans, giving them cloaking devices long before "Balance of Terror" explicitly made it a new thing. Also the idea of "primitive space vessels" using nuclear weapons? Nah, the Romulans and Starfleet pretty much already have all the tech they'd have in all future Treks. Even the classic Romulan Bird of Prey was given a 24th-century visual makeover.

I also recall thinking around season 1 that they'd reveal the Suliban as part of the Romulan Star Empire, and that they'd probably be the "face" of the war and I still wonder if that was ever considered.

Spatial torpedoes seemed like they could hold atomic weaponry, and it does make sense that Earth would want to move past its atomic past after WW3, and at minimum mothball their stockpile somewhere. When they moved to photonic torpedoes, it would have made sense to adopt the term photonic missiles, which was used once in VOY for weapons on the Delta Flyer. They were clearly familiar with the term.

The lack of atomic weaponry on the part of the Romulans was never explained. However, maybe when they left the Vulcan homeworld, they took the Vulcan atomic weapons with them and have them stockpiled elsewhere. And mirroring humans, they view it as primitive technology, hence its lack of usage.

I think those in charge of the show were hoping to tell a story that explained why everything appeared to take a step back technology wise by the time of TOS - likely tied to the atomic nature of the conflict. Of course, DSC has altered that and taken a leap ahead in technology instead, unless you believe its in an alternative timeline, like I do. In any case, the BoP, like the NX-class, may have received a refit in the 2150s. That may have been the case for all of the Earth ships, not just Enterprise.

We were never told where the Suliban homeward is precisely is located. Just that it had become uninhabitable, which resulted in their nomadic behaviour. I don’t even think they clarified how the Suliban homeworld became uninhabitable to begin with. It entirely possible that the Suliban homeworld is in or near Romulan space, and the Romulans had something to do with it becoming uninhabitable. Memory Alpha has it in the Beta Quadrant, but technically the Romulan Empire does expand into the Beta Quadrant too. The Suliban being the face of the war is interesting, considering how the Remans are seen as the default species as the face of the war on the Romulan side.

 

[somebuddyX]

I think Season 4 did a good job of getting towards the Romulan War. I like the idea of the drone ships and maybe it being pretty much a war in space, explaining why no one knows what a Romulan looks like. I think staying true to the spirit of Balance of Terror was/would be the best way to go rather than using everything the TOS episode says as absolute gospel. 40 years of continuity had passed since then so some allowances of wiggle room should be allowed. I think Minefield giving the Romulans cloaks was really dumb though, although I think that episode is pretty good otherwise. There was something offputting about the sudden reveal of the Romulans in Babel One but I don't know if there was anyway to do it better. I watched that episode knowing the Romulans were involved but trying to imagine what the reveal would have been like unspoiled and it just sucked, in my opinion.
My idea for how the war should be handled has changed over the years. When the Chronology came out and put the dates as 2256-2260 I treated that like 4 years of hard warfare, slogging it out over territory on land and space. Babylon 5's Dilgar War and Minbari War, and Space: Above and Beyond's Chig War was kind of how I figured it went down and the Chig's use of armoured suits that kind of liquified/exploded the wearers was something I thought the Romulans might use so as not to give the game away about who they are. I figured that at some point Trek would do a show set in the 22nd century but I imagined it set around 2261 and the Romulan War as backstory to that show and only depicted in flashbacks, save for seeing the Battle of Cheron in the beginning of the pilot episode.
When Enterprise came out and gave me an Earth that was way less advanced and defended that I'd envisioned I struggled with the idea of the war being depicted any good. I think it was Bry Sinclair that suggested the war needn't have been for 4 years straight, maybe just a season or part of one, but having the aftermath depicted as well, something we didn't really get for the Dominion War.
When In The Beginning was being suggested as Star Trek XI and the war was being boiled down to a couple of weeks and Enterprise was stuck at Risa for the duration, I really didn't like it much. I still wonder whether Tiberius Chase was meant to be an ancestor of Kirk's or just a spiritual predecessor but it's moot anyway now.
Nowadays I keep blabbering on about a Romulan War version of Star Wars: The Clone Wars. Some kind of animated show, maybe it brings back some cast members from Enterprise in guest roles or recast with soundalike voice actors. Have some politicking between the member races of the Alliance. You could do an arc where we go follow the Columbia for a mission, or maybe we're on Andor with Shran or something. I don't think this will happen but maybe we'll get some other depiction on screen one day and that could be cool.

 

[DarKush]

Even though I liked the seeds that were planted in the Vulcan Reformation and United arcs (need to look at "Minefield" again, all the way through, to judge that) I would say no. I go with no because I think much more could've been done, starting even in the pilot or in the first handful of season one episodes to set up the Romulans and the war and to build anticipation. I thought the Suliban and the Xindi were not bad enemies, but their roles could've been reworked to be either Romulans or species tied to the Romulans, which I think would've made their appearances even richer for the series and Trek lore.

 

[FederationHistorian]

I think Season 4 did a good job of getting towards the Romulan War. I like the idea of the drone ships and maybe it being pretty much a war in space, explaining why no one knows what a Romulan looks like. I think staying true to the spirit of Balance of Terror was/would be the best way to go rather than using everything the TOS episode says as absolute gospel. 40 years of continuity had passed since then so some allowances of wiggle room should be allowed. I think Minefield giving the Romulans cloaks was really dumb though, although I think that episode is pretty good otherwise. There was something offputting about the sudden reveal of the Romulans in Babel One but I don't know if there was anyway to do it better. I watched that episode knowing the Romulans were involved but trying to imagine what the reveal would have been like unspoiled and it just sucked, in my opinion.

Archer’s Enterprise lacked the radar to track a cloaked vessel like a BoP, whereas Kirk’s Enterprise and the outposts of the TOS-era would not have had that problem at all. That’s probably what “Minefield” was going for. But cloaked BoPs still should not have been introduced, at least without a sound explanation of its existence a century ahead of schedule.

I think the issue with “Babel One” is that the Romulans were shown at all before the final scene. Its supposed to be an unknown marauder, and we are seeing events unfold from the perspective of Archer, Shran, et al. only. And yet, its spoiled midway in that episode for the viewer that the Romulans are behind it before T’Pol reveals the Romulan connection by referencing the “Minefield” episode a couple of seasons earlier. Those particular scenes should have either been deleted from the episode, or moved to the end of it.

My idea for how the war should be handled has changed over the years. When the Chronology came out and put the dates as 2256-2260 I treated that like 4 years of hard warfare, slogging it out over territory on land and space. Babylon 5's Dilgar War and Minbari War, and Space: Above and Beyond's Chig War was kind of how I figured it went down and the Chig's use of armoured suits that kind of liquified/exploded the wearers was something I thought the Romulans might use so as not to give the game away about who they are. I figured that at some point Trek would do a show set in the 22nd century but I imagined it set around 2261 and the Romulan War as backstory to that show and only depicted in flashbacks, save for seeing the Battle of Cheron in the beginning of the pilot episode.

There are a lot of intriguing ideas here that I have never though of before. That would not seem out of place in regards to the Earth-Romulan War lore.

When Enterprise came out and gave me an Earth that was way less advanced and defended that I'd envisioned I struggled with the idea of the war being depicted any good. I think it was Bry Sinclair that suggested the war needn't have been for 4 years straight, maybe just a season or part of one, but having the aftermath depicted as well, something we didn't really get for the Dominion War.

That makes sense. DS9 covered a war for two seasons straight. Plus, the inferior tech during the Enterprise-era should give some leeway as to why it took a while to reach certain destinations. Which would justify leaps in time within a single season. The aftermath is arguably more important that the depiction of the war itself.

When In The Beginning was being suggested as Star Trek XI and the war was being boiled down to a couple of weeks and Enterprise was stuck at Risa for the duration, I really didn't like it much. I still wonder whether Tiberius Chase was meant to be an ancestor of Kirk's or just a spiritual predecessor but it's moot anyway now.

I think aspects of the movie script are salvageable. But I do not think it would have made for a good film either. Yet, if TATV was set in 2155/56 instead of 2161, such a movie could have been based around the ENT cast instead as a sendoff from that particular era.

Nowadays I keep blabbering on about a Romulan War version of Star Wars: The Clone Wars. Some kind of animated show, maybe it brings back some cast members from Enterprise in guest roles or recast with soundalike voice actors. Have some politicking between the member races of the Alliance. You could do an arc where we go follow the Columbia for a mission, or maybe we're on Andor with Shran or something. I don't think this will happen but maybe we'll get some other depiction on screen one day and that could be cool.

There are many different ways to depict that event. A Clone Wars-style show is one of them, and would be the most likely way to bring the ENT cast back in some form. Such a show hopefully would not suffer from small universe syndrome.

 

[Tribble Threat]

I would have liked Enterprise better if they went to the Romulan War story right away instead of the time travel story.

 

[Boris Skrbic]

The Romulan war should’ve been this horror conflict with an unseen enemy and atomic weapons in Flash Gordon starships. It’s hard to reconcile with the spirit of “Balance of Terror” if there is already an entire support network and a great deal of first-contact experience building to the founding of the Federation.