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Do we need to hold another Constitutional Convention?

Nowhere Man

Commodore
This is my first time in Miscellanious so I don't know if it has been brought up or not. So here it is, should we(U.S.) have a new Constitutional Convention or not. I realize it would be hard since it requires all States to get involved and 3/4 of States to ratify an ammendment, but just for shitz and gigles what do you think? I also realize it would be hard because it would require Congress to actually do something and it would require a ton of compromise. I also wish to ask what changes would you make if a new Constitution was bieng written. I personally think it's time. Here are some proposed changes from other people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_proposed_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Here is what I propose: Adopt original Constitution as it was with origanal 10 Bill of Rights
1.One Six year term for President, 4 is too short, 8 can be too long at times.
2. Repeal the 14th amendment, gives Citizenship back to the States. The Executive Branch has power to enforce laws not Legislative
3. Adopt 13th, Slavery is bad m'kay
4.Adopt 15th, Everyone deserves right to vote. Allow for property requirements only. This eliminates non tax payers from voting with agenda's
5. Repeal 16th, let people retain their entire income.
6.Repeal 17th, Senete used to be Voted by House. This allowed Senate to focus on legislation and not constantly running for office. Also if House members would be elected with more caution by the people. Gets rid of the "mobocracy"
7. Do not adopt 18th, I like my Alchohol, probation never works
8. Adopt 19th, see #4
9.With # 1 there is no need, one 6 year term.
10. Adopt 21st. See #7 also add a section legalizing possesion and personal/private use of all drugs in small quantities up to one ounce. Make sale and distribution taxable to Marijuana, Alchohol and Tobacco . Sale of hard drugs not mentioned illegal. Allow growth of any dru of organic nature legal in small quantities of a maximum of 10 plants per household or private property.
11.22nd would not aply, one 6 year term.
12. Adopt 23rd Amendment, agian, everyone should have the right to vote. Get rid of section 2,agian Executive branch enforces law.
13. Adopt 24th,get rid of section 2 same reason.No Jim Crow laws.
14.Adopt 25th, VP. become President if something bad happens.
15.Adopt 26th, If your old enough to go to war, your old enough to vote.
16.Adopt 27th, no raises while in term.
17. Add amendment for right to a full educatioin with trade for two years of public service. By full I mean Kindergarden-College Graduate. Any further education is not on the house.
18. Establish a single-payer Health Care system. Allow States to decide what is needed for each State.
19. Eliminate the Federal reserve, replace with Consumer Protection Agency that has police powers.
20. Eliminate Federal Reserve Notes, allow States and Banks to print own Money, eliminate "Greenbacks".
21. Establish a permanent Gold Standard, allow for Bonds to be sold in war time. Allow for temperary disbanding of gold standard during war time only.
22. Establish5 % tax on all goods.establish non protective tariffs(tax imports)
23. Establish a line item veto.
24. Balanced Budget Amedment
25. Right of Abortion.
26. Right of Mariage to anyone, allow for gay mariage.
27. Right of gay person to serve in Military.
28. Right of People to have a clean environment
29. VP. would be voted for in seperate election from President, but elected at same time
30. Abolish Electorial College.
31. Representation in the House would be based on pop.
32. Establish a clear seperation of church and state.
33. Public financing of campaignes only.
34. Corperations do not have same rights as people.
35. Establish worker rights.
36.Clarify 2nd amendment to allow for gun regulation. ie. no automatics
37. Make any and all secret documents avaliable to the public after 10 years of it's original print date.
38. Dismantle the CIA., also requre Congress to re-declare war for each year that a war continues. President allowed to raise military for up to 6 months.
39. Re-establish rules of war.
40. Replace "in god we trust" with "in the people we trust" also abolish the use of the word god or gods or the names of any religous figure on and federal document or coins or anything.
Ok I think that's it, let me know what you think. By the way I'm a registered Independent.
 
There's a lot of absurdity in your list. The biggest problem in my opinion if you have the government granting rights to the populace. Rights are not gifts of government. That's not what the constitution is for... it's about limiting the federal government.

I would add term limits for congress, mandate the Air Force, alter the commerce clause such that it can no longer be abused to justify virtually anything.
 
There's a lot of absurdity in your list. The biggest problem in my opinion if you have the government granting rights to the populace. Rights are not gifts of government. That's not what the constitution is for... it's about limiting the federal government.

I would add term limits for congress, mandate the Air Force, alter the commerce clause such that it can no longer be abused to justify virtually anything.

Can you explian, the first half of my list is a return to the original Constitution before the Civil War. Obviously Slavery would not be exceptable. I agree rights are not granted,but the bill of rights establishes rights that cannot be taken away. I say that some rights should be expanded like worker rights, which is constantly abused. Rosevelt proposed this, not me. Term limits for congress would be good. I was wrestling with it, but yeah I agree.
 
Here is what I propose: Adopt original Constitution as it was with origanal 10 Bill of Rights

1.One Six year term for President, 4 is too short, 8 can be too long at times.

There are demonstrated problems with Presidents who can only serve a single term. Basically leads to no accountability. Two four year terms is a good compromise between extremes.

2. Repeal the 14th amendment, gives Citizenship back to the States. The Executive Branch has power to enforce laws not Legislative

Yeah, I too miss Jim Crow laws and blatant, legal discrimination. The 14th amendment was passed for a reason. That reason still exists.

3. Adopt 13th, Slavery is bad m'kay
4.Adopt 15th, Everyone deserves right to vote. Allow for property requirements only. This eliminates non tax payers from voting with agenda's
5. Repeal 16th, let people retain their entire income.

And where is revenue going to come from? We can't really have strong tariffs anymore because of fair trade laws. I suppose we could have regressive taxes, provided we hate the poor.

6.Repeal 17th, Senete used to be Voted by House. This allowed Senate to focus on legislation and not constantly running for office. Also if House members would be elected with more caution by the people. Gets rid of the "mobocracy"

The House deciding the Senate? So it doesn't represent the interests of any state? Also, it would act as a rubber stamp for whatever bare majority of the House is in charge? What's the rationale for this again?

13. Adopt 24th,get rid of section 2 same reason.No Jim Crow laws.

How is this enforceable without the 14th?

17. Add amendment for right to a full educatioin with trade for two years of public service. By full I mean Kindergarden-College Graduate. Any further education is not on the house.

How are we financing this without income tax?

18. Establish a single-payer Health Care system. Allow States to decide what is needed for each State.

Same question

19. Eliminate the Federal reserve, replace with Consumer Protection Agency that has police powers.

So are we allowing the Federal government to make and enforce laws again?

20. Eliminate Federal Reserve Notes, allow States and Banks to print own Money, eliminate "Greenbacks".

And the reason for internal barriers to trade is?

22. Establish5 % tax on all goods.establish non protective tariffs(tax imports)

So destroy the world economy through tariffs that will lead to retaliation and inability to get goods cheaply anywhere in the world? Also, add a regressive tax to fuck poor people.

23. Establish a line item veto.

There are positives and negatives here. The problem is when congress passes two laws that are intended to work together and one is vetoed. Completely destroys the point of having the other law and can give the Executive too much power.

24. Balanced Budget Amedment

Possible with a reasonable trade and no income tax? Along with health care and right to education?

28. Right of People to have a clean environment

Without the 14th amendment, how would this be enforced on the states?

Short answer, no, we do not need a constitutional convention. We don't have the Articles of Confederation here.

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.
 
Automatic weapons have been regulated since 1934. They are not strictly illegal but highly regulated. You are not going to own an automatic weapon without a federal firearms license or something. The misinformation that automatic weapons can be easily bought by anyone is complete tripe from the anti gun folks. They don't understand the huge difference between automatic and semi-automatic. Automatic means a machine gun. Semi automatic means that you don't have to load one bullet at a time and the bullets are held in a magazine.
 
In addition, the Supreme Court (in obiter dicta) has expressed a complete recognition that states can place reasonable regulations on the kinds of guns that may be owned. Their current second amendment decisions and any that are likely to follow aren't going to change that.
 
Here is what I propose: Adopt original Constitution as it was with origanal 10 Bill of Rights

1.One Six year term for President, 4 is too short, 8 can be too long at times.

There are demonstrated problems with Presidents who can only serve a single term. Basically leads to no accountability. Two four year terms is a good compromise between extremes.

2. Repeal the 14th amendment, gives Citizenship back to the States. The Executive Branch has power to enforce laws not Legislative

Yeah, I too miss Jim Crow laws and blatant, legal discrimination. The 14th amendment was passed for a reason. That reason still exists.



And where is revenue going to come from? We can't really have strong tariffs anymore because of fair trade laws. I suppose we could have regressive taxes, provided we hate the poor.



The House deciding the Senate? So it doesn't represent the interests of any state? Also, it would act as a rubber stamp for whatever bare majority of the House is in charge? What's the rationale for this again?



How is this enforceable without the 14th?



How are we financing this without income tax?



Same question



So are we allowing the Federal government to make and enforce laws again?



And the reason for internal barriers to trade is?



So destroy the world economy through tariffs that will lead to retaliation and inability to get goods cheaply anywhere in the world? Also, add a regressive tax to fuck poor people.



There are positives and negatives here. The problem is when congress passes two laws that are intended to work together and one is vetoed. Completely destroys the point of having the other law and can give the Executive too much power.

24. Balanced Budget Amedment

Possible with a reasonable trade and no income tax? Along with health care and right to education?

28. Right of People to have a clean environment

Without the 14th amendment, how would this be enforced on the states?

Short answer, no, we do not need a constitutional convention. We don't have the Articles of Confederation here.

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

I'm not for the Articles of Confederation either, this would be a return of the Constitution as it was prior to the Civil War minus slavery of course. A 5 % tax on all goods would more than pay for my sugestions. The States will still have taxes also. If you legalize drugs and tax their sale, you get tons of revenue. I don't understand why tariffs on imports would not do. Also, we didn't always have income tax. We managed to still exist then. If you have more money in your poicket, then your not poor anymore are you? if you eliminate the need to pay for health care or education, then you are not poor. It levels the playing field. You misunderstand the 14th. It created a national Citizenship and took it away from the States. Some States required you to own property or live in that state for seven years before your granted citizenship. The rest of the 14th deals with the Ex-Confederates at the time. It dealt with the Confederacy, not the right to vote. That is covered by the 15th and 19th amendments which would be adopted. I explained how it would be enforced, by the Executive which is it's proper place. Congress granted it's self the power to enforce, which is unconstitutional. I don't agree with Jim Crow laws, I'm just saying it is a police matter. The seperation of powers is important. How does a 6 year term lead to no acountability? There is no acountability now. If the President breaks the law then he/she is acountable to laws no matter what. Like I said, in four years it's hard to get shit done and sometimes eight is too long. Six is a nice compromise. Revenue can also come from reducing the military, why do we need a constant standing military? Reduce the police state we live in. The Founders wanted the House to vote for the Senate, it was that way for decades, it was only recently changed. They wanted it that way becouse as you notice the Senate can't get shit done because they are always playing politics. They wanted the House to directly reflect what the voters want, the Senate was suposed to off set any angry mob voting, which is what we get today. If the people are more carefull of who they vote for in the House, then the House members, who are looking out for sour interests, not theirs will carefully choose a Senator. The States are still Represented. If a House member chooses the wrong person the people can throw them out in two years. The Senate is suposed to be the more intellegent, intilectual house free from all the bull. Now we vote for Senators and we end up some real idiots.We end up with these people because some people don't think about who they are voting for and just vote party lines. We also have corperations buying Senators. How do we pay for it? No income tax=more money in pockets=more saving, then spending= revenue from goods that are taxed. Tariffs on all imports=revenue. Focus expoirting more than importing and the economy gets better. The Federal Gov. has always had the enforcement power, agian it comes from the Executive. If you have a Consumer Protection Agency, then they enforce the laws. It keeps people from getting screwed and stops people who can't afford a loan from getting a loan. You don't need the Fed. who has no accountability and arbitralily rais and lowers the interest rates.We aren't allowed to know what goes on in their meetings, yet they are in charge of our finacial system. We have been under this Constition since the 1860s. I think it's time for an update. Thomas Jefferson thought it should be done every trenty years or so. So did most of the Founders. If we go on the gold standard, we can balance the budget and live within our means, no more borrowing to no end. It makes the Goverment more accountable, they can't go to war for years withno end because they know they have to tax us. They actually have to pay for shit.
 
Speaking as a citizen of a nation that has only recently emerged from a protracted constitutional crisis, which has involved:

--two provincial referenda on secession;

--a national referendum on a package of constitutional amendments;

--innumerable federal-provincial conferences;

--three constitutional accords (two of which were never implemented);

--at least two Supreme Court references;

--and endless, endless bickering and recrimination...

...I have only this to say to Hunter's proposal.

For God's sake, man--listen to me, as if I were Cerberus, barking with all his heads at the gates of Hell.

Don't open that constitutional Pandora's box!

Don't even think about it.
 
Let me start off by saying that I can think of nothing more terrifying than holding a Constitutional Convention in this era of corrupt, self-serving political "leadership" and dysfunctional political discourse on all sides of the spectrum.

This is my first time in Miscellanious so I don't know if it has been brought up or not. So here it is, should we(U.S.) have a new Constitutional Convention or not. I realize it would be hard since it requires all States to get involved and 3/4 of States to ratify an ammendment, but just for shitz and gigles what do you think? I also realize it would be hard because it would require Congress to actually do something and it would require a ton of compromise. I also wish to ask what changes would you make if a new Constitution was bieng written. I personally think it's time. Here are some proposed changes from other people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_proposed_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Here is what I propose: Adopt original Constitution as it was with origanal 10 Bill of Rights
I'd like to stop right there.

------------------
As for your list: I'll indicate the ones I might agree to (with some modifications):

OK 1. One six-year term for President.
OK 2. Vice president would have to be elected on his/her own merits rather than as part of a two-person ticket.
OK 2. Direct election of the president and the veep (eliminate the electoral college).

My proposal: House elections every three years, and capped at three terms. Senate elections would be every two years, and capped at five terms.

Retain
25th, re: Vice Presidency.
26th, re: voting age.
27th, re: congressional raises during term.

17. Add amendment for right to a full education (including college) with trade for two years of public service. (Having eliminated income taxes, how would you propose to pay for it?)
18. Establish a single-payer Health Care system (having eliminated the income tax how would you propose to pay for it?). Allow States to decide what is needed for each State (which would create the same inequalities in health care that we see in education and other services).

21. Establish a permanent Gold Standard, allow for Bonds to be sold in war time. (Does that mean we wouldn't be able to buy bonds in times of peace?).
22. Establish 5% tax on all goods. (So you're proposing that the poor should have to pay the same tax rate as the rich for the essentials -- food, clothing, shelter, etc.).
OK (modified): 26. Any two consenting adults at least 18 years old may marry.
OK: 27. Right of gay persons to serve openly in military.
OK: 28. Right of People to have a clean environment.
OK: 31. Representation in the House would be based on state populations as determined by the census.
OK: 32. Establish a clear separation of church and state.
OK: 33. Public financing of campaigns only (with a reasonable cap).
OK: 34. Corporations do not have same rights as people.
OK: 35. Establish worker rights.
OK: 36. Clarify 2nd amendment to allow for gun regulation. ie. no automatics
OK: 37. Make any and all secret documents available to the public 30 years after they were classified.
OK: 40. Replace "in god we trust" with "in the people we trust" also abolish the use of the word god or gods or the names of any religous figure on and federal document or coins or anything.

Ok I think that's it, let me know what you think. By the way I'm a registered Independent.

----------------
I am also an independant.
 
Holy god, paragraphs, dude.

National sales tax would fall disproportionately more on the poor. If that's what you want, more power to you, but the voters of the nation intentionally went against this (the first income tax even pre-dates the income tax amendment).

The problem with tariffs is retaliation. When we had high tariffs, we found American-made goods couldn't be sold abroad because those nations instituted retaliatory tariffs.

You misunderstand the 14th. It created a national Citizenship and took it away from the States. Some States required you to own property or live in that state for seven years before your granted citizenship. The rest of the 14th deals with the Ex-Confederates at the time. It dealt with the Confederacy, not the right to vote.

Due process clause. The bill of rights only applied to the Federal government. This led to open discrimination and Jim Crow laws (not just right to vote, Jim Crow laws include separate facilities for black people, laws deciding who you could sell your land to, who could marry whom, etc). All of this is protected by the 14th amendment.

Having two elections holds the President accountable for his political decisions during the first term in order to get elected for his second term.

The House never elected the Senate, the State legislatures used to elect the Senate. It became a system where the politically entrenched could give favors to one another that included Senate seats. Populist movements in the turn of the 20th century led to income tax, primary elections, and popular election of Senators. I feel that was a positive change.

How is this the same constitution as the 1860s? Either pick the starting point or the last amendment. The 13-15th amendments weren't the only amendments. Jefferson did say we shouldn't treat the constitution as a sacred document, but we also can't simply erase it on a whim once it's been long established. That's why we have living document philosophy and constitutional amendments. Constitutional Conventions were only intended for situations where the legislature refused to amend the document in spite of massive popular will for change (hence why the states start with the initiative).
 
Ok guys, I'll concede the need for income tax, but it needs to be modified. I'll concede the 14th amendment should be retained with modification. Give citizenship back to the states. If we retain income tax, then we should get rid of sales tax. States can still have various fees and fines. There's plenty of traffic laws and other crap they can impose on us. The reason I think we need a"reboot" is because the system is broken. We the people can't retain control, the Congress is corrupt and personally I don't trust any party. We're losing this country to corporations. I would not send anyone currently in congress. I would propose each state sends delegates voted by the people. As far as bonds, of course you could buy bonds in peace time, what I meant is we need to return to that system. Make them pay for their wars, not borrow to no end. We are never going to pay it back.
 
It depends on which party controls Congress. We do have elections at different times. It really depends. Besides, we really need to get away from the President setting policies and following party lines. He/ She should be doing other stuff, like diplomatic stuff, treaties. Taking care of domestic policy. We need to roll back our foreign policy big time. The President should be a president for everyone, not just their political party. Also, we should eliminate parties al together. Washington warned against them saying they were the bane of Republics.
 
2. Repeal the 14th amendment. Modify the 14th, born citizens must have had at least one citizen parent.

17. Add amendment for right to a full educatioin with trade for two years of public service.
Only if it's tied to "school vouchers" Freedom of education will include the right of school choice, including the choice of taking your voucher to a private institution.

22. non protective tariffs. America had tariffs for the majority of her history.

23. Establish a line item veto.
Not only for the president, also for senators and representatives. Congress persons could, for instance, vote yea, nay or abstain on different line items in a appropriations bill.

24. Balanced Budget Amendment
. Except for instances of congressional declared national emergency's. Narrow definitions as to what constitutes a "emergency."

32. Establish a clear separation of church and state.
And a corresponding clear separation of state and church.

33. Public financing of campaigns only.
Absolutely not, violates freedom of speech.

36.Clarify 2nd amendment to allow for gun regulation. ie. no automatics
. But only full automatics would be required to be registered, the right to possess non-full automatics "shall not be infringed."

37. Make any and all secret documents avaliable to the public after 10 years of it's original print date.
Some secret document include the identities of foreign informants . In some cases you would be condemning them to torture and death. Other documents concern the design of weapons of mass destruction and should never be made public. This is just plain wrong.

38. Dismantle the CIA.
Whatever problem you have with the CIA, wouldn't you have the same problem with the organization that replaces it?

38. require Congress to re-declare war for each year that a war continues. President allowed to raise military for up to 6 months.
I'm actual with you on this one. Further congress would be restrict from voting any war appropriations without first voting in a formal declaration of war (using that exact language), also some form of the Bricker Amendment following six months after the declaration.

39. Re-establish rules of war.
Did you mean the laws of war? They're still in effect.

40. Replace "in god we trust" with "in the people we trust" also abolish the use of the word god or gods or the names of any religous figure on and federal document or coins or anything.
No. Violates the first amendment. (You need to read the whole amendment, not just parts.) having God on the money doesn't establish a religion. Unless you worship money.

By the way I'm a registered Independent. I'm against this concept, American citizens should not have to register or declare a political affiliation. Who I support or "caucus with" is none of the governments business. Including during primaries,



..
 
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The list in the OP has a lot of junk (e.g. elimination of Federal currency), inappropriate legislation (e.g. legalization of drugs is as inappropriate as prohibition of alcohol at the Constitutional level) and redundancy (the "In God We Trust" motto is already illegal).

The only real changes that need to be made to the Constitution at this point are: 1) An Equal Rights Amendment that protects all Human beings from conception to death without exception, and 2) an Election Reform Amendment that eliminates the Electoral College and institutes a ranking system for Presidential elections.
 
I've re-written your so-called Equal Rights Amendment in plain, non-euphemistic language:

1) A Reproductive Slavery Amendment that protects all human beings from conception to death--with the exception of women, who can be impregnated and forced to bear children without their consent.
 
So this is what a Tea Partier's wet dream looks like, eh? Thank fuck the US is made up in such a way politically to make that entirely impossible.

eta: nope, strike "Tea Party" after reading the full list, I have no clue what OP is. Hardcore Ron Paulian?
 
So this is what a Tea Partier's wet dream looks like, eh? Thank fuck the US is made up in such a way politically to make that entirely impossible.

eta: nope, strike "Tea Party" after reading the full list, I have no clue what OP is. Hardcore Ron Paulian?

Niether,I really can't stand those "Tea Party" people. I think they are mostly ignorant and uninformed, like Sarah Palin and Cristine O'Donell. I don't think they know what they are talking about. While I do agree with some of their ideas, they are misguided. As for Ron Paul, I do like some of his ideas, but he dosen't value certian civil rights. I'm not trying to choose one party or another. I like some Republican ideas, I like some Democratic ideas, but I don't like eneough from either party to stick with one. I would do away with parties all together if I could.
I see this country failing, why? Because we are not a Republic and haven't been for over 100 years. Yet we say,"and to the Republic for which it stands." We are an Empire and Empires fail. The Roman Republic, the Greek Republics all failed for the same reasons we are failing. We need to reclaim our soveriegnty. We need to roll back our military. We need to realize that we can't police the whole world. Hell, as a Star Trek fan, let's go with a Prime Directive foriegn policy. No interferance. I'm not nieve, I know we have to be mindfull of countries like Iran, but you know, we have a habit of creating our problems.

The reason I sugest a Constitution Convention is because I believe that's what it would take to reboot the country without another Civil War. I don't see the amendment process hapening. I understand getting 50 or I would argue 52 delegates together to agree to do that would be hard, but it's not imposible. Like I said it's just for shitz and gigles and my list is not non-negotiable. The reason I am all over the map is because I believe in womens rights and gay rights, civil right. I also believe in States' Rights and State soveriegnty. We have to find a way to negotiate the two. That's why I would expand the Bill of Rights to include Worker rights, Health Care rights, Environmental rights. Those are things I would not negotiate. Maybe it should be left up to the States, but some things should be across the board. Maybe the lagalization of drugs can be left up to the States, but let's end this "War" or drugs, we're losing that one. So we need to find a nice balance, but the Founders never wanted it to be this way.

This is not a Government of the peole.The National Government is way too big.These are the reasons I bring all this stuff up, not to stir up hate, but just express my opinion and get input from the board. Aparently I am alone in my thinking, but these are things I find myself thinking about all the time and I finally got the balls to express that opinion. All I want is to return us back to a Republic before it's too late. We can't sustain this way forever. No, I'm not running for office, just sincerely wanted people's input.So whatever you do, please don't place me in any party, say what you will and think about it and please read in full. I'd love to hear sugestions. It's just a thought experiment, that's all. Thank You all.
 
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I see this country failing, why? Because we are not a Republic and haven't been for over 100 years. Yet we say,"and to the Republic for which it stands." We are an Empire and Empires fail. The Roman Republic, the Greek Republics all failed for the same reasons we are failing.

Citizens haven't voted for candidates to represent them in Congress and the Executive for over 100 years?

We have an Emperor, and he's about to be deposed by foederati?

Paragraphs have gone out of fashion?

I guess I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.
 
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