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That's a good start, but as I said, I understand that we probably can't completely remove it. Still, any way one can minimize that impact, on a personal level, is worthwhile.
Do Vegetarians have problems with eating eggs?
- Thread starter Jayson1
- Start date
I have a problem with how animals are treated in the meat industry. The cruelty that goes on is horrific. Most people can't stomach seeing it. Even watching "The Meatrix" is disturbing to some. But it's pretty accurate.
As such I've been cutting back significantly on my meat intake. Not only for the cruelty to animals, but because of the environmental cost for this industry (due to TERRIBLE behavior by the companies therein, and lack of government regulations/enforcement). Trump can go **** himself with his steaks.
Eggs are a different matter. Chickens lay them no matter what. There's no inherent cruelty to the animal. I try to buy eggs from responsible farms. It's not perfect, but it's better than what is done for meat. Eggs are an awesomely nutritious food. Absolutely one of nature's best nutritional packages. It's a shame not to take advantage of them. BUT... I agree, the irresponsible chicken farmers need to be held accountable.
As such I've been cutting back significantly on my meat intake. Not only for the cruelty to animals, but because of the environmental cost for this industry (due to TERRIBLE behavior by the companies therein, and lack of government regulations/enforcement). Trump can go **** himself with his steaks.
Eggs are a different matter. Chickens lay them no matter what. There's no inherent cruelty to the animal. I try to buy eggs from responsible farms. It's not perfect, but it's better than what is done for meat. Eggs are an awesomely nutritious food. Absolutely one of nature's best nutritional packages. It's a shame not to take advantage of them. BUT... I agree, the irresponsible chicken farmers need to be held accountable.
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Exactly. I don't expect people to just stop eating meat. Humanity's been engaging in that practice for millions of years. What I do feel we can accomplish is to reduce cruelty, and to reward innovation that continues to produce, while reducing wear and tear on the environment, while also embracing an ethical treatment of animals, even as food. Said it before, will say it again after this, but Temple Grandin had it right: "Nature is cruel, but we don't have to be."
DO you think it will ever be possible to go back to how it use to be with real farms instead of massive inhumane corporate farms you see today? Also I have always wonder if it would be possible to make it so that ever animal that will become food gets a guarantee that before it becomes food it has the chance at a X amount of years before that happens?
Jason
We are genetically predisposed to eat meat... and for good reason. It's our heritage and yet, we can choose to eat vegetarian if we wish. I was raised on meat and I just can't deny the fact that I love how it tastes. A properly cooked filet mignon is like heaven.
And you're absolutely right, that we can farm animals ethically, minimal cruelty. After all, animals die all the time in the wild. But in the snare of a predator, they're usually killed off quickly (a live prey can be dangerous to the predator). If companies weren't so profit optimization obsessed, there wouldn't be the cruelty going on that we see today. Animals would live humanely for a reasonable stretch and then be dispatched with minimal pain.I believe in capitalism, as long as it's properly governed. We're just unfortunately not at the social evolutionary point where humans can be inherently trusted. We will go awry when the opportunity to do so exists. But as long as leaders (business and politics) subscribe to the belief that we can get away with minimal government at this point, we'll keep struggling. Technological evolution is not enough. Social intelligence must be equally evolved to emotional. Once there, I believe that we'll see problems like this fade away. But it's a long, long way off.
@Jayson1 - I don't think we can go back to the way things were considering the scale. Maybe in very small communities where the population levels can support it. But on the larger scale, the food production needs are too great.
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I believe we can find ways if the incentive is there. Unfortunately, I do not believe the incentive is there, as most folks would rather not know where their meat comes from, and that's understandable. THAT SAID, people are becoming more aware as we see the news pick up stories where massive recalls are starting to become more common, which should tip people off as to how things are being done, and that perhaps they should pay closer attention. It doesn't mean there's a solution on the horizon, but it is a hope I have.
Oh, sure, people love meat, I understand that. When I ate meat, I enjoyed it very much. Nothing like a hot dog or a hamburger on a hot July day, or at the park. My cousin is a master of grilling, I mean you would fight your closest relative to get to one of his cheeseburgers. I don't harbor ill will towards anyone who enjoys eating meat, it's just something I cannot bring myself to do anymore.We are genetically predisposed to eat meat... and for good reason. It's our heritage and yet, we can choose to eat vegetarian if we wish. I was raised on meat and I just can't deny the fact that I love how it tastes. A properly cooked filet mignon is like heaven.
I believe in capitalism, as long as it's properly governed. We're just unfortunately not at the social evolutionary point where humans can be inherently trusted. We will go awry when the opportunity to do so exists. But as long as leaders (business and politics) subscribe to the belief that we can get away with minimal government at this point, we'll keep struggling. Technological evolution is not enough. Social intelligence must be equally evolved to emotional. Once there, I believe that we'll see problems like this fade away. But it's a long, long way off.
@Jayson1 - I don't think we can go back to the way things were considering the scale. Maybe in very small communities where the population levels can support it. But on the larger scale, the food production needs are too great.
As for practice, I agree that we can find more humane ways of getting our meat without resorting to the utter brutal methods being used now. I mean, what happens to cows is bad enough, but anyone who has ever seen what happens to chickens will want to throw up, because it is an ungodly nightmare, and even if people never stop eating meat (I'm fine with that), we should at least show that our compassion outweighs our immediate wants, and do things right and proper. It can happen, we just have to want it bad enough.
Agreed.
The times when I've pointed this out, the reaction is usually one of these:
1. You're lying!!!!!
2. So what? It takes X amount of Y to raise one cow and cows are harmful to the environment and it's wrong to drink milk because cow's milk is for baby cows only, and <excuse after excuse after excuse>.
3. Huh?
4. No animals are killed this way, but even if there were, it's not that many.
5. You're a horrible carnivore and you're going to burn in hell and I'm going to dance on your grave.
6. You deserve to die and if I ever find you I will kill you.
All of the above have been said to me by the kind, caring vegans of various YouTube pages and a very badly-misnamed scam-filled social activism website called Care2, where the "moderator" (in airquotes because he's an incompetent <unmentionable>) allows vegans to harass and troll and flame and threaten the lives of omnivores but bans omnivores who try to reason with them.
So as far as I'm concerned, be a vegan. Just don't yap at me about what a horrible person I am if I choose to drink milk (I like milk, hate coffee, and don't want to end up with osteoporosis like my grandmother and many others of her generation did because they considered milk to be only for children and thereby deprived themselves of an excellent source of calcium), eat a cheeseburger, or enjoy an egg salad or a salmon sandwich.
I do wish that modern farming methods weren't so cruel, but things are what they are. I don't have a source for humanely-farmed animals, so I take whatever is at the grocery store or restaurant.
At least I'm not a trophy hunter, and I don't use cosmetics.
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People do tend to get combative about their food choices. We don't want to feel guilty for the basic human need to eat. If you're vegetarian, there's always going to be that person who says "yeah, well I love MEAT." As if that's some kind of rebuttal. The same goes for a vegetarian or vegan who constantly points out that the cheeseburger someone is eating is imbued with a great many injustices. For fuck sake, people, if they're eating, just let someone eat.
I love meat - I really do ! I just haven't eaten it since 1985. Anyhow, here's a rather pragmatic viewpoint :
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/james-mcvey/eating-less-meat_b_15180948.html
Therefore eating cows is BENEFICIAL to the environment, because you're removing them from the equation.
Also you can point out that by the time the animal gets to your table, it's already dead. If you don't eat it, the animal died for nothing. You're giving its death a purpose.
As for cruelty: Yeah, of course the process of butchering and preparing the animals can be made much easier and more humane. If you could walk up to, say, a cow, and produce a Taser and go BZZZT and it's instantly dead, hey, I'd be all for that. But that's a matter for another day.
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Excellent article, and I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment. It doesn't bother me that people eat meat, what bothers me that people waste so much of it. Billions of dollars worth of meat is wasted every year, and yeah, that's a life slaughtered for no purpose other than to pad pockets with cash, because no person received that meat in order to consume it and live, it was just thrown away. Of course I have a longstanding tirade against food waste anyway. 1 in 5 children go hungry in the United States alone, yet we waste 66,500,000 tons of food a year. That's just the U.S. on its own!
So eat what you like, just, you know, don't waste it if you can help it. Of course, the vast majority of food wasting happens at processing plants, and markets. Still, every person can make a difference.
Oh, and since I'm on a food rant:
Something you can do right now (and every day):
http://thehungersite.greatergood.com/clickToGive/ths/home
Something you can do today:
http://www.feedingamerica.org/find-your-local-foodbank/
/End Rant
Whilst I appreciate the liberal 'free choice' viewpoint, it still doesn't work for me. It's like turning a blind eye to suffering - I don't cause it, but it's O.K. that it happens.
Not that I can stop it, but I'd like to.
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Humans will eat meat for at least the foreseeable future. I can either make peace with that and ameliorate suffering wherever I can by advocating responsible meat consumption while pushing for more humane practices, or I can have a heart attack stressing out from it. It may seem like a liberal free choice viewpoint, but it's more an "accept that this is how the vast majority of society lives, understand that, respect it, and fight to make it better while letting people eat without haranguing them" viewpoint.
On a practical level I have to agree - I wouldn't have many (any ?) friends if I kept on at them.
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