Do people put to much importance on language and words when judging people?

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by Jayson1, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Commodore Fleet Captain

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    I've brought this up before but nobody has ever commented on it. I am someone who tends to feel the need to defend people when they say something that might look bad to others partly because of this notion. Also partly because I am never sure if I am always getting across my my own thoughts and feelings when I talk or post.

    My theory is that people are bad at communication because emotion and opinion doesn't translate well to words. Whatever someone says or types your at best only getting half of what they really want to communicate and even worst if you don't feel articulate or really bad at spelling like I tend to be.

    It doesn't help either when I think most people are really confused, like me, about what they really do think and feel about things. It's not like opinions and thoughts are formed in granite. They are constantly shifting depending on your mood or additional information, though that additional information usually comes from even more words so you got that going on as well. What you said or typed even 5 minutes ago might be completely off base with what is currently running inside your head and if you say/type that then 5 minutes later that might also change.


    Jason
     
  2. auntiehill

    auntiehill The Blueness Premium Member

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    I find that it is probably not worth posting something if it is likely one will change one's mind or opinion about it "5 minutes later." There is no need whatsoever to post every stray thought that crosses your mind, especially if your feelings about it are so fleeting that they shift with every mood .

    And, frankly, if it is important enough to post and important enough for you to share, it is entirely on your own shoulders to make yourself clear.Think before you write; compose a post or response and look for the right word for the job. If others can't understand you, the fault is yours.

    There are simple tools like spell check and websites to help you learn the basics of English, both of which are readily at your disposal. If you choose not to use them, then don't be surprised that your ability to communicate falls short.
     
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  3. ALF

    ALF Commodore Commodore

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    *Too (much importance). Sorry, I couldn't resist! :D

    Your post is spot on. Humans are passionate creatures. Your point - if I understand it correctly- about being unaligned from your own opinions 5 minutes after typing (or saying something) is accurate. Really, it's a miracle we have billions of people on the planet and there isn't nearly constant bloody and highly destructive total pandemonium.

    On a message board for example it's quite easy to go back and find something contradictory that a poster might have felt a year ago, a week ago, an hour ago. In politics especially people are held to things they said years and years ago. I guess people wouldn't judge as much if it wasn't as fun and intrinsic as fuck to general human nature. Everyone is a potential target for criticism, solicited or not (overwhelmingly not)!

    Sometimes I find reading something aloud before hitting "post" or "send" can be very beneficial.
    Oprah says it's okay to change your mind later. Maybe she's right. She seems pretty chill to me.

    Be well.
     
  4. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Commodore Fleet Captain

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    Words though are incomplete. I will give a example. What if I said, "I am happy today because I have a date with this girl I meet at the park!" What in the end does that really mean? Am I happy because we bonded over Star Trek or is it because she was super hot or is it because I am lonely and desperate to meet anyone. Is this meeting my first meeting with her? Maybe I forget to mention I casually talked to her a few times before. What if after I posted she called and cancelled the date. What if I already had a girlfriend and was cheating or she had a boyfriend and I didn't care and etc. Do I define my happiness as extreme excitment or just being kind of upbeat for the day. Is it because I am confident she will like me or just hopeful she will like me. Basically the numerous of little details of the experience would be so boundless you couldn't possibly relay they entire moment into words. Not to mention even if you yourself would try to be as detailed oriented as possible most people in the world wont be so your still left with the same issue.


    Jason
     
  5. auntiehill

    auntiehill The Blueness Premium Member

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    ^Then why bother communicating at all?

    Say or don't say it; no one cares. But if you are going to say it, do your best to communicate as clearly as possible. Whining about it, rather than striving to improve your abilities, isn't going to help you.
     
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  6. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Commodore Fleet Captain

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    I also find myself contradicting myself a great deal, as well like you mentioned. Heck sometimes I think my most favorite movie is the one I last saw. Sometimes I I don't care what people think about me and other times it's the only thing I do seem to care about.

    Even empathy can shift. I believe more people should be put into mental hospitals than prisons because I think most hard criminals do have mental illness but it's kind of hard to feel that way when you hear the gory details of the latest killer, rapist etc. All of sudden you sort of have the "Let them Fry" kind of feeling. Heck that feeling can happen even in least drastic situations. I'm sure everyone has gotten so angry with someone they meet or know that even if what the infraction is small in comparison to those above mentioned crimes you might be so pissed at that moment you might have a "I hope you die" kind of feeling. That doesn't mean you really want them to die. It just means you were really,really angry for a moment and wasn't thinking rationally. End result usually ends up with you feeling shame .or guilt. Then you get over it and then things between you and that person go back to normal. I know have had times when me and my mom might be yelling and 5 minutes later your making jokes with each other.


    Jason
     
  7. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Commodore Fleet Captain

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    Well everyone has to do it because we don't have any other way to communicate. Not to mention all the different mental issues starting in my life from my birth to my present that led to me being the kind of person who likes to post on the internet. I mean it's not about a lack of trying. Nobody ever talks or posts without some kind of intention. That doesn't mean they are going to be good at it. Also all the work to improve doesn't change the limitations of the human mind. Speaking of the 5-minute example can you recall what you were doing 5-minutes ago, what where you feeling then in perfect detail? I can't in exact detail. I know my location at the time and kind of what I was talking about because it was this thread or maybe the one in the "DIscovery Forum" but not sure about me emotion. I suspect it was a mix of happiness, a little sleepiness some discomfort because it is hot in my house and I think I might have started to notice that back then. Could have been thirsty. I am getting hungry so that might have been their but that's another unknown detail lost to history.


    Jason
     
  8. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Not to mention subtle differences in meanings that can arise in variations of the same language i.e English and American English.
     
  9. auntiehill

    auntiehill The Blueness Premium Member

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    So you've just answered your own question. Language is all we have, so all one can do is try to be as clear as possible.

    I guess we can close the thread now.
     
  10. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Commodore Fleet Captain

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    Plus when you tell a story you don't even know the details around your own personal details. In my example I can only guess why this lady who was going to go on a date was thinking. I might think this date is the greatest thing ever, and she might just see it as yet another random date.

    In regard to the internet it's well known fact that humor and sarcasim doesn't always translate. You don't have any eye contact or body language to judge and that is if your even good at judging people with those things. I think some woman could literally want to have sex with my that instance and I would be oblivious to any kind of clues she might be giving off. Figuring other people out is even harder than figuring myself out and i'm not always good at either.

    Also you got the stuff you do know and don't want to know. I don't want to know that I am kind of into domineering woman might have something to do with my mom being like that. My inability to make friends is connected to the isolation I felt as a kid because of my asshole stepdad. Also when I think about suicide part of it's because I know just for a moment someone will care.

    Jason
     
  11. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Commodore Fleet Captain

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    You forget the part though of using language to judge people. If you don't fully understand someone how can you judge them? Also made harder since people's benefit of the doubt relies on how cynical or optimistic they are and those feelings can be in flux as well. Maybe I see Joe Smith as asshole because I am in a bad mood right now but hey if I am in a happy mood I simply see him as flawed with some good traits.

    Jason
     
  12. Amaris

    Amaris Abiding Eos Premium Member

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    If someone says something that seems "off" to me, then I try to ask for clarification until I understand the point (if any) they're trying to make. Otherwise, if it's just a general statement, I accept it as a conversation starter. Message boards exist for that purpose, so... I'm fine with that.
     
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  13. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Commodore Fleet Captain

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    I know but I have seen many people at times try and explain themselves only for people to not really understand what they are getting out yet it seems so clear to me what I think they are trying to say. It gets worst when people start looking for ulterior motives.

    Jason
     
  14. UncleRogi

    UncleRogi Captain Captain

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    This goes back to the ancient philosophical question: Are happiness and contentment the same?...
    No one can really answer that, IMHO.

    I've read that words are only symbols assigned to our thoughts, and can never be complete, but one could strive to be as accurate as possible, as mentioned above. This goes further in that certain ideas can only
    be expressed well in the original language that the idea was expressed. There are a lot of English
    technical words in Spanish, for example.

    Another thought: profanity originally meant any non-religious conversation. As most religions object
    to vulgar speech, those words were profane, only used outside of church. So now profanity means
    vulgar language.

    My $0.02, for what its worth.

    :hugegrin:
     
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  15. Spot261

    Spot261 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Communication is an incredibly complex, diverse and multi layered set of skills, attributes and interactions, words representing one set of tools in that mix.

    I'd love to think I didn't judge someone based purely on their linguistic capabilities but in reality how people form sentences, what level of vocabulary they possess and how they colloquialise that vocabulary all serve to inform and characterise the the image we form of the person behind the screen.

    For instance @Jayson1 is well known here for his free form, somewhat disinhibited streams of consciousness, whereas I present as a monotonous pedant.

    :nyah: sorry Jayson
     
  16. rahullak

    rahullak Commodore Commodore

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    I understand communication is hard, but it is definitely a skill that can be improved upon. There are effective communicators in the world and it would behoove us to learn from them whenever and wherever we can.

    (I hope this thread isn't some backhand way to defend Trump though ;) )
     
  17. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Commodore Fleet Captain

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    I think it can help give you the gist of what you are thinking and feeling for that moment in time and you can after time start to see patterns that repeat with a person but how it all comes together to represent a persons "soul" so to speak is impossible.

    One thing I like to do is when I see someone say something I disagree with and even something that I think is bad is to ignore the whole concept of good and bad and try and listen to the logic of the argument. I don't care if someone thinks carrots can grow on the moon. That person has some kind of logic in his/her mind to think it is possible. Well that or they are crazy.:)

    Also it might be nice if everyone realized their is no such thing as a "normal" person or even a well-adjusted person. Some are just better at hiding all the crazy-weird and sometimes even terrible stuff inside them than others are. Were all fucked up in some way IMO. Is it wrong that I find that comforting? I think that is the stuff that makes people most interesting though it also makes people very dangerous.

    It's also why language is hard to judge people. Few people want to let others see or know the weird and sometimes bad part of them. So you present the best version of yourself only sometimes the inner weirdo or asshole, shows through at times.

    Jason
     
  18. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, and part of it is do to the way the brain works, and part of it is a lack of willingness to move past mental short cuts.
     
  19. Amaris

    Amaris Abiding Eos Premium Member

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    Intent is most important to me, though clarification can often be necessary.
     
  20. Refuge

    Refuge Rear Admiral Commodore

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    A personality can be revealed by the language you choose though that language may not always be interpreted the same way. It's like hearing a voice of a DJ on the radio, you form a mental image - most often wrong. When I read posters here I'm influenced by their avatar and their words. I DO judge their choice of words, more than their grammar and spelling. I notice those choices people make for example, when they say the weather was 'inclement', when they could've just as easily said it was a cold and rainy. 'Astonishing' or 'amazing'. It's all good, but it each leaves a different impression. Words do that and language does that.

    Personally I often go over a post of my own and think I am doing that Data thing and am not using enough contractions. Yet when I originally composed the response or thread without being self-conscious, I preferred the emphasis of ''I am" compared to "I'm". Changing it makes it more casual.

    As for pondering thought. Yes you can change your mind or need to get something out there. There's been a few new threads I've had ready to go and then thought - why bother ;) Yet I really don't believe any of us are unique of thought, so when you do venture a topic it's always interesting to see if it has hit a shared nerve, coming to agreement or not.
     
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