Divide in the fandom = fiction?

[JoeZhang]

When discussing the theory of evolution, one of the points put out by creationists is that the TOE is a "theory in crisis" and that there is a massive spilt in the scientific community about it's validity. This, of course is bunk and TOE is accepted (although there are still arguments about the fine details) by all major scientific organisation. The "crisis" is a fabrication.


Can we say the same thing about Trek fandom?

I keep hearing that this film has split the community down the middle, however all the polls I've seen conducted within the "community" about various aspects of the film seem to break down at about 80%/20%.

So is there a large divide in the fandom or is it (as seems to be) that there is a sizable minority who are unhappy but not of the numbers that some would suggest?

 

[RoJoHen]

The disgruntled minority are always going to be louder than the rest. It makes it seem like there are more of them than there actually are.

Every real person I've talked to is looking forward to the movie.

 

[DeafPoet]

I don't think there's any divide at all. We can all be whiny idiots when we want to be

 

[CaptainHawk1]

The disgruntled minority are always going to be louder than the rest. It makes it seem like there are more of them than there actually are.

Every real person I've talked to is looking forward to the movie.

Although your evidence regarding "people you talk to" is anecdotal, you're absolutely correct that it's always the big mouth minority group, no matter what the issue is, that gets the most attention and usually pisses people off the most.

-Shawn

 

[CaptainHawk1]

When discussing the theory of evolution, one of the points put out by creationists is that the TOE is a "theory in crisis" and that there is a massive spilt in the scientific community about it's validity. This, of course is bunk and TOE is accepted (although there are still arguments about the fine details) by all major scientific organisation. The "crisis" is a fabrication.

Can we say the same thing about Trek fandom?

I keep hearing that this film has split the community down the middle, however all the polls I've seen conducted within the "community" about various aspects of the film seem to break down at about 80%/20%.

So is there a large divide in the fandom or is it (as seems to be) that there is a sizable minority who are unhappy but not of the numbers that some would suggest?

Why creationism (and no, I don't mean crazy-man creationis like man is only 6,000 years old or dinosaurs were around as recently as 1987 or some other nonsense spouted by the nuts) or at least intelligent design and evolution can't be compatable I'll never know. Beyond that I think the alleged crisis was about certain gaps in evolution or disagreement about certain details. So, I don't think that that's an appropriate analogy because that theory in crisis nonsense was propagated by outsiders not from the scientific community (i.e.., the creationst crowd) and not internally.

A good analogy, however, would be this alleged split in the Democratic Party because of Hillary Clinton's unsuccessful campaign. A few squeaky wheels tried to convince the MSM that a vast majority of Clinton supporters (especially women) would vote for John McCain. Didn't happen and was never going to happen. The Republicans for Obama people tried to convince the MSM that there was this large contingent of Republicans supporting Obama. Same deal, same results.

-Shawn

 

[TJinLOCA]

Every real person I've talked to is looking forward to the movie.

RoJo, how do you define "real people"? People in real life, rather than on the Internet? That would definitely bring the disgruntled number way down.

Most non-fans I've spoken to think it looks good. A majority of my fannish friends are at least cautiously optimistic. But there are a handful of GOFs (grumpy old fans) who are determined to hate it, at least among my personal friends.

I'm on old fan myself (since TOS' original airing) and I'm really excited about it.

 

[RoJoHen]

Every real person I've talked to is looking forward to the movie.

RoJo, how do you define "real people"? People in real life, rather than on the Internet? That would definitely bring the disgruntled number way down.

I don't consider anybody on the internet real. You're all too crazy to be real!

 

[M'Sharak]

The disgruntled minority are always going to be louder than the rest. It makes it seem like there are more of them than there actually are.

Every real person I've talked to is looking forward to the movie.

Although your evidence regarding "people you talk to" is anecdotal, you're absolutely correct that it's always the big mouth minority group, no matter what the issue is, that gets the most attention and usually pisses people off the most.

-Shawn

The "squeaky wheel", so to speak.

Every real person I've talked to is looking forward to the movie.

RoJo, how do you define "real people"? People in real life, rather than on the Internet? That would definitely bring the disgruntled number way down.

I don't consider anybody on the internet real. You're all too crazy to be real!

You have no idea...

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I keep hearing that this film has split the community down the middle, however all the polls I've seen conducted within the "community" about various aspects of the film seem to break down at about 80%/20%.

Yep, this is clearly the case. It's pretty consistent no matter how you try to measure it.

Nor is there any indication that older, "long-time Trek fans" are more negative on the whole toward the new movie than younger fans.

 

[CaptainHawk1]

The disgruntled minority are always going to be louder than the rest. It makes it seem like there are more of them than there actually are.

Every real person I've talked to is looking forward to the movie.

Although your evidence regarding "people you talk to" is anecdotal, you're absolutely correct that it's always the big mouth minority group, no matter what the issue is, that gets the most attention and usually pisses people off the most.

-Shawn

The "squeaky wheel", so to speak.

A few squeaky wheels tried to convince the MSM that a vast majority of Clinton supporters (especially women) would vote for John McCain.

Indeed.

-Shawn

 

[M'Sharak]

...

The "squeaky wheel", so to speak.

A few squeaky wheels tried to convince the MSM that a vast majority of Clinton supporters (especially women) would vote for John McCain.

Indeed.

-Shawn

Heh. I'll admit that I saw "Democratic Party", "Hillary Clinton" and "MSM" and my mental inner eyelids clanged shut, there. Words cannot describe how weary I am of campaign-related stuff. I should be ready for the next one by just about the time the Vulcans land.

 

[Lapis Exilis]

The disgruntled minority are always going to be louder than the rest. It makes it seem like there are more of them than there actually are.

I think there's a possibility that what makes them seem to be a larger group than they are is the way people who disagree with them obsess about them - start threads to prove they are a small group and pile onto them when they state their opinion and such like.

There's never going to be 100% consensus on any work of art. I know people who hate ET, think Casablanca is dumb and fall asleep during Gone With the Wind. I met someone the other day who said they found The Wizard of Oz ridiculous even as a child.

What's interesting to do at that point is ask why they have that opinion and marvel at the diversity of humanity.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I think there's a possibility that what makes them seem to be a larger group than they are is the way people who disagree with them obsess about them

There is a lot of obsessive behavior in fandom - it may even be a hallmark of the "typical" Trek fan. One aspect of obsessive/compulsive behavior is that it's triggered by anxiety and the behavior itself can produce more anxiety - it's a downward spiral.

IOW, in this case obsessive canonistas trigger anxiety in other fans who respond with compulsive defensive behaviors which trigger anxiety in the canonistas which...

 

[Captain X]

When discussing the theory of evolution, one of the points put out by creationists is that the TOE is a "theory in crisis" and that there is a massive spilt in the scientific community about it's validity. This, of course is bunk and TOE is accepted (although there are still arguments about the fine details) by all major scientific organisation. The "crisis" is a fabrication.


Can we say the same thing about Trek fandom?

I keep hearing that this film has split the community down the middle, however all the polls I've seen conducted within the "community" about various aspects of the film seem to break down at about 80%/20%.

So is there a large divide in the fandom or is it (as seems to be) that there is a sizable minority who are unhappy but not of the numbers that some would suggest?

Everyone likes to think that they are in the majority because they feel it vindicates their point of view. Pulling a fake statistic out of your ass doesn't prove anything either.

 

[Good Will Riker]

Those nitpicky, hardcore fans can go make their own backyard films.

Give us J.J. Abrams's Star Trek (2009)!

 

[JoeZhang]

When discussing the theory of evolution, one of the points put out by creationists is that the TOE is a "theory in crisis" and that there is a massive spilt in the scientific community about it's validity. This, of course is bunk and TOE is accepted (although there are still arguments about the fine details) by all major scientific organisation. The "crisis" is a fabrication.


Can we say the same thing about Trek fandom?

I keep hearing that this film has split the community down the middle, however all the polls I've seen conducted within the "community" about various aspects of the film seem to break down at about 80%/20%.

So is there a large divide in the fandom or is it (as seems to be) that there is a sizable minority who are unhappy but not of the numbers that some would suggest?

Everyone likes to think that they are in the majority because they feel it vindicates their point of view. Pulling a fake statistic out of your ass doesn't prove anything either.

So the polls here are faked here? This star trek board is not representative microcosm of Trek Fandom ? the demographics are skewed? what is it?

 

[Lapis Exilis]

I think there's a possibility that what makes them seem to be a larger group than they are is the way people who disagree with them obsess about them

There is a lot of obsessive behavior in fandom - it may even be a hallmark of the "typical" Trek fan. One aspect of obsessive/compulsive behavior is that it's triggered by anxiety and the behavior itself can produce more anxiety - it's a downward spiral.

IOW, in this case obsessive canonistas trigger anxiety in other fans who respond with compulsive defensive behaviors which trigger anxiety in the canonistas which...

 

[Captain X]

So the polls here are faked here? This star trek board is not representative microcosm of Trek Fandom ? the demographics are skewed? what is it?

Poll results are going to depend on which forum you're in, even on TrekBBS. There seems to be a lot of negativity in the Art forum about this movie, and even in here it's more like a 55%/45% split on liking or disliking the look of the ship. And on other boards there is plenty of negativity about the movie too, like on SciFi-Meshes, where the split is the opposite way, with the enthusiasts being in the minority.

 

[gastrof]

The disgruntled minority are always going to be louder than the rest. It makes it seem like there are more of them than there actually are.

Every real person I've talked to is looking forward to the movie.

I count myself as a real person, and while I'm going to see the movie (and am looking forward to it) I'm also disappointed certain choices were made.

When I've pointed out certain failings and how the new approach is sort of "ending" the Trek timeline we had before and more or less effectively blocking anything new being added to it (since the basic timeline's being overturned), the degree of viciousness I was subjected to was amazing.

I'm not so sure it's those who dislike the film that make the loudest noise. Rather, it's those who want to silence anyone who isn't willing to drink the Kool-Aid who do so.

You'd have thought the people involved worked for Paramount (or JJ), and were "willing to use any means", except I'm pretty sure they've been around here for a long time.

 

[Aragorn]

Fandom isn't one collective with the same thought, despite the naysayers who fully intent to hate the next movie -- in advance, during and after -- and hate you for not thinking the same way. There have been five live-action Trek TV series on the air, and every show has fans that call it their favorite of the group.