"Discovery" and "Orange is the New Black"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Lord Garth, Dec 26, 2017.

  1. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Commodore Commodore

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    Let's get the obvious out of the way because that's not where I'm going with it. When Orange Is the New Black starts, it resolves around Piper Chapman who's been sentenced to Litchfield Penitentiary. And, yes, at the beginning of Discovery, Michael Burnham is sentenced to prison before serving on Discovery.

    So, both are (or were in Michael's case) inmates but that's not where I'm going with this. Here's where I'm going. At the beginning of OITNB, Piper was the main character. The main arc focused around her. During later seasons, it's become more of an ensemble. So much more that I'm not necessarily watching just for Piper anymore, so much as I am to see what happens to everyone else. And, no, I won't spoil it for those who haven't seen the series.

    On Discovery, we started off with Michael as the main focus but, even by the end of the mid-season finale, it looks like it's really starting to branch out. Do you think this show will end up becoming much more of an ensemble than it started off as?

    Unrelated: for some reason I get a Caputo/Figueroa vibe off of Lorca/Cornwell. Even though Lorca has far more brass balls than Caputo and Cornwell actually cares about people unlike Figueroa.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2017
  2. Refuge

    Refuge Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Star Treks tend to gravitate toward the Captain being the driving force and a lead. Discovery seemed to want to avoid this but in Michael they haven't achieved the presence. Perhaps if Lorca had been the captain of the Shenzhou and Georgiou of Discovery, Michael would not have been overshadowed by Lorca/Isaacs. Georgiou was not the scene-stealer Lorca is.

    It's not uncommon for the best laid plans to not pan out. For someone background to earn interest. In part Cornwell is like that. Saru is not the breakout character either. Stamets has such a pivotal role that he is interesting. Tyler too. I guess Tilly has her place as the dill of the crowd. So yeah, I agree, that Discovery is tending more ensemble.
     
  3. CaptainMurdock

    CaptainMurdock Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I hope so. Less Michael and her angst is always a good thing.
     
  4. Jackson_Roykirk

    Jackson_Roykirk Commodore Commodore

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    From what we've seen in the first nine episodes, I'd say Discovery is already almost an ensemble, but is from the viewpoint of Burnham, hence Burnham is featured most among that ensemble.

    I know that the production releases when the show was in development said that it would key on someone else other than the Captain, but that didn't necessarily mean that the Captain (and others) would not be vital characters in the show as well.

    I remember people reading that pre-production releases and coming on this board wondering how a Star Trek show could possibly work if we barely saw that Captain of the ship, but I never wondered that myself because I figured we would see the Captain of the ship, just like the TV show The West Wing was a show about the White House that keyed on members of the President's staff, but we still had quite a bit of the President in every episode.
     
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  5. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Commodore Commodore

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    I actually prefer that the Captain is not the lead character. Because he's not the lead they're able to do things with Lorca they might not have done if we were supposed to be rooting for him. He's not a role model and we have the freedom to not pretend he is.

    It opens up more possibilities. Like whether or not Lorca will actually survive the season, if we'll see multiple captains over the course of the series, and who's new (in general, Captain or not) that Michael will have to get to know or adjust to.
     
  6. Jackson_Roykirk

    Jackson_Roykirk Commodore Commodore

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    I'm guessing the character is meant to grow away from the self-loathing and "resigned forever to the fate that she chose for herself" character we saw early.

    In fact, we already saw some of that as she becomes more and more accepted and trusted by her crew mates. By episodes 8 and 9, we see that she feels less like an unwanted outsider and as a result she begins to open herself up to those around her.

    But for that character growth to be evident, they needed to start her somewhere low.
     
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  7. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    She's better because of her relationships with Tilly and Tyler (and to a lesser extent, Lorca and Stamets), which has opened her up more. Her relationship with Saru and Detmer and all the crew who don't give her the light of day show that she has a way to go to earn respect as a (potential) Starfleet officer again.

    People have commented on the lack of senior officers and the fact that what should be major characters (Airiam, the navigator) are bit parts with no lines, but I see that as a reflection of what Michael sees. We'll get to know these characters when Michael gets to know these characters.
     
  8. GeekUSACarl

    GeekUSACarl The Last Starfighter Premium Member

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    not so much with DS9 or Voyager,

    being an avid fan of both and recently re-watching, the episodes were a healthy strong mix of focus on various integral characters.
     
  9. Refuge

    Refuge Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I watch Voyager a lot and Janeway features in practically every episode. That is not to say other characters are not fully utilised, I love that about the show. However there is little doubt the Captain and the bridge is where the action is going to often be.

    I think the idea of trying to pull away from having the Captain a driving force was a bad one. There is no escaping that they make the decisions and will inevitably have the status in story and for fans. Lorca has become the more compelling one.

    Michael has a lot of story and she's still a drag.
     
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  10. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Commodore Commodore

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    It would be interesting if they unintentionally managed to slip one passed us, then caught onto it. Like if they realized they could do more with Lorca because he wasn't the main character... then discovered (pun intended) he's more interesting to write for, then decided, "Let's make him the lead after all!"

    I'm just thinking out loud, and speculating, so anyone can feel free to take this with a grain of salt.
     
  11. GeekUSACarl

    GeekUSACarl The Last Starfighter Premium Member

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    I'll still respectfully disagree,

    perhaps I see "focus" and "main" very differently but I never really viewed it that way for the length of the show, often she was, often she was not, I couldn't quite see her as "the main" character, or that the show was "about" her.

    I cannot say you're wrong however.
     
  12. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

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    I hope so. I really want to go to know the other characters. For example, how much have we really seeing the Culber/Stametts relationship? 1 or 2 episodes? How about branching that out. Also, I would like to see more of the bridge crew, and an explaination for that one character who looks like she came out of Tron. I've been curious about her since the first episode.
     
  13. Refuge

    Refuge Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    So much of Trek (I'm generalising again ;)) involves having this mission statement and the home base for the characters, be it star ship or space station, pretty much declares its general theme. Like good thing Voyager was called 'voyager' because duh, they were going to do some serious voyaging. Deep Space 9 probably breaks away from traditional space exploration but all and all, there is a formula. The troops are rallied, the leader/captain declares some kind of mission statement and the cast of characters develop from there living out various stories.

    Obviously 'Discovery' has chosen to go a different path. There is a war, there is a 'Discovery' and a captain who makes speeches but rather that be the formula the 'eyes' in this are supposed to be about Michael, she is meant to be the lead. It's her journey. I don't think it was supposed to be a springboard for the Starship 'Discovery' as such. That is why we didn't see this ship until episode three. If Michael left the USS Discovery we would presumably go with her.

    If the creators were not hedging their bets they would have titled this show with a less Star ship title and called it something Michael related. (Though it could be argued Michael is going through some kind of discovery). Her journey/story is the 'mission' statement.
     
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  14. Vger23

    Vger23 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There have only been 9 episodes, 2 of which were basically a prologue. There just hasn't been the time for that yet.
     
  15. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

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    We are talking about what we want to see with Discovery in the future. Those two things are something I would like to see in Discovery in the future.
     
  16. Vger23

    Vger23 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    How is what I wrote in any way incongruous or misaligned with that?
     
  17. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

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    Nothing. I thought I was kinda agreeing with you. I would like to see this show be more of an ensemble as it grows, but yeah I know we are barely into it at this point.

    I didn't realize that Discovery comes back in a week and a half. That wait wasn't too bad.
     
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  18. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Commodore Commodore

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    Holy shit. That's right. January 7th.
     
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  19. Captain of the USS Averof

    Captain of the USS Averof Commodore Commodore

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    It better branch out to other characters. Let’s face it, Michael and her struggles ain’t all that interesting.
     
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  20. CaptainMurdock

    CaptainMurdock Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    100% Agreed.