Discoprise won't have TOS "cardboard sets"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Khan 2.0, Sep 6, 2018.

  1. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Commodore Commodore

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    earth...but when?...spock?
  2. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Keeping TNZ Shiny! Moderator

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    Those episodes used it as an easter egg for fans, just a nice one-off tribute. It wouldn't work for an entire show. Those sets are never coming back, the 60s ended a long time ago.
     
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  3. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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  4. Groppler Zorn

    Groppler Zorn Captain Captain

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    I think the assumption that people who would have preferred an aesthetic that suggests TOS more strongly want ““cardboard”” sets is problematic. Much as I love TUC, I think their “ode to TOS” is more of an ode to TUC based on this article and I’m not sure it works in the time period DSC is supposed to be in. I would have preferred an updated TOS look that was closer to the original. Not the same - that wouldn’t make sense. The DSC designs don’t suggest TOS strongly enough for me. Yet, I’m not so naive as to think that the 1960s designs and sets should be recreated faithfully for an entire series (a couple of episodes here and there, fine - but let’s not forget DSC is set in an era we’ve never seen before so some differences are to be expected). I think it’s naive to assume that people *would* think that the 1960s sets should be recreated for DSC, yet that seems to have influenced the designers’ attitudes when designing the look of the show. However imho it would have been possible to update the TOS look without being so drastic - or without using TUC as the main influence as opposed to TOS. I think the production designers are working from a faulty assumption here insofar as they think that anyone might want “cardboard” sets and they should avoid doing that. But, as Kirk said to Kruge, “c’est la vie”.
     
  5. cultcross

    cultcross Live long and prosper, chuck Moderator

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    I had thought they were drawing heavily from the movies aesthetic (as did the Kelvin movies, actually).

    Still, slagging off TOS sets probably not the way to make friends and influence people :lol:

    Also, fixed the title.
     
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  6. roneill

    roneill Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    I'm not sure you understand what an easter egg is. They were front and centre in the episodes, not something hidden away for fans to find. And nobody complained.
     
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  7. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    The Enterprise and other ships look totally different on the outside, of course they will look different on the inside as well.

    I'm curious about that warp core design that resembles the Lawrence Livermore target chamber from ID.
     
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  8. cultcross

    cultcross Live long and prosper, chuck Moderator

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    Perhaps Easter egg is the wrong term but AP is right on her general point - the earlier appearances were fun fan service episodes, nostalgia writ large. The motivation and intent is quite different now. While it is unfair to describe the TOS sets as cardboard, they represent an aesthetic of the future which didn't make much sense today. Even something as simple as having wall mounted intercoms seems anachronistic now, and doubly so when ENT did the same thing.
     
  9. SPCTRE

    SPCTRE Badass Admiral

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    yeah, these elements of "future" tech make sense today only if you put it in a context the way nuBSG did (using anachronistic tech on purpose, for <story> reasons)

    otherwise, they just seem more or less out of place
     
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  10. Groppler Zorn

    Groppler Zorn Captain Captain

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    Agreed. Mostly inaccurate historically, too iirc.

    I’m not a writer on Star Trek. But if I ever was to become such a person I would think that the fun would be in coming up with a creative reason why the TOS tech makes sense in our future. I’m not saying the DSC team isn’t creative enough to do that. Based on the article above they wrote TOS off before they even started so didn’t even try to be creative with the look and tech :)
     
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  11. cultcross

    cultcross Live long and prosper, chuck Moderator

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    Writers like to tell stories, and good successful shows have good stories - explanations of technology rarely make good stories. It's one of the mistakes that ENT made, putting too much emphasis on self-referential trivia like how the transporter came to be, or the invention of red alert. You're limiting yourself to an ever shrinking audience doing that.
     
  12. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Discovery
    is nothing but nostalgia writ large in the storytelling department. Not sure why the look of TOS is a bridge too far at this point?

    And, I don't think those folks realize that without those "cardboard" sets, they wouldn't have jobs on Star Trek. It really is fucking disrespectful to run down the original that way.
     
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  13. cultcross

    cultcross Live long and prosper, chuck Moderator

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    I don't agree. They've certainly gone too often to the self referential well on details, that you'll get no argument on. But the story of redemption that season one is telling is largely independent of this often excessive fan-dressing (to the point that it had me wondering what the point of the Spock connection was at all) and they mostly avoided the temptation to explain 'future' events and situations. Lethe was an exception to this but generally a well done one which at least wasn't superfluous to the main character. Season 2 looks to be weaving in references more directly, but there are still indications of a fresh story to be told. Where they will go wrong is if they allow the Enterprise fanwank to become the story instead of whatever this mystery is they're teasing.
     
  14. Groppler Zorn

    Groppler Zorn Captain Captain

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    Forgive me I made my point poorly. I meant that the setting for the story would involve a creative reason for why the world of Star Trek is what it is. The story wouldn’t rely on technobabble. The closest analogy - as has been noted above - is the BSG plot point where Galactica uses outdated tech. There’s no reason the TOS tech couldn’t work in context if the reason for it being so is creative and compelling enough.
     
  15. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Commodore Commodore

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    Basically what I've already observed in the past. They want the look of DSC to sync up with the movies.
     
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  16. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Commodore Commodore

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    seem to recall around the time of the original movies (i.e TMP) there was the notion that this is what TOS should've looked like if it had the budget (incl Klingons) and it wasn't until that Scotty Relics ep where TOS sets look was established in the 'nu Trek' of the movies/TNG verse..(and then we got all the TOS in DS9/Tribbles and Ent and the explanation of the bumpy head Klingons etc)

    sounds like the STD team is working on that basis
     
  17. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Nobody think of giving Herman Zimmerman a call?
    I realize that Disco is a "soft reboot" of the prime timeline, that there are updates that are going to be made, that the visuals, set design, ships, technology, etc. will be revamped to show the advances of technology that we have discovered. Now, While I champion this, I also champion showing some reverance to the "Cardboard Sets" The bridge of a TOS ship looks and feels like a Tos/movie era ships, not a late 24th cenetery design. Klingon ships look like Klingon ships of TOS but updated to look good in HD Tv's.. That does not mean throw out what came before.
     
  18. Jesse1066

    Jesse1066 Captain Captain

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    Aesthetic decisions aside, I don't think it's fair to say TOS had cardboard sets when that isn't even true for the most part. I mean, if you've gotta disparage TOS, at least be accurate.
    Otherwise, it's quite understandable that the interior of the Enterprise is getting an upgrade and using TUC as the base makes the most sense for DSC.
     
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  19. Hey Missy

    Hey Missy Commander Red Shirt

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    "Cardboard sets"
    At least know what you're talking about. They were plywood.
     
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  20. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    First thing I thought of reading your post :)
    [​IMG]