Disappointed by the importance of the lack of technology

[Hero of Setlik III]

Before I started watching Enterprise, when I saw it on Netflix it mentioned the lack of shields and transporters. From this I expected this to be important to the plot and would result in a very different Star Trek. Of course the crew used transporters when necessary and the lack of shields didn't matter because they could "polarise the hull". The only time I noticed the lack of technology impacting the show was when they couldn't speak to alien species because of the crappy universal translator, which was eventually given up for the most part by the end of the series.

Was anyone else hoping for this relatively primitive Enterprise to take a different approach than the other shows did?

 

[eyeresist]

I think it's generally felt that ENT went a little too "modern", i.e. introducing fairly modern phasers, normalising the transporter and universal translator. OTOH, some sort of shield technology was essential, otherwise the first time they get fired upon would be the end of the show.

To the show's credit, they did keep the transporter from being totally modern. They did choose the shuttlepod over the transporter for most of the show, and season 4 ep Daedelus showed that the tech still hadn't been perfected.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I was expecting something more primitive. But I guess the Powers That Be wanted all the recognizable Star Trek elements in the show, which they probably spent a fortune copyrighting.

 

[ihno]

Was anyone else hoping for this relatively primitive Enterprise to take a different approach than the other shows did?

The first time I saw the ship "Akiraprise" I knew that Enterprise would not be a real prequel but just an excuse for TNG 3.0.

But the thing that annoyed me most was the portrayal of the crew as a bunch of pathfinders, who are certainly not the smartest cookies in the jar.

 

[eyeresist]

Ignored.

 

[Tenacity]

But the thing that annoyed me most was the portrayal of the crew as a bunch of retarded pathfinders.

This is something that is always apparent, less as the show progresses through the successive seasons, but never completely disappears.

We find out that during the course of the series that prior to the construction of the NX-01 Earth already had interstellar travel, interstellar trade, numerous aliens living on Earth and therefor a way for them to get to and from Earth. Starfleet was already in existed.

Yet the command crew of the NX-01 are depicted as nearly clueless,

Only the young helmsman has experience outside of Earth's star system, and than experience is rarely call upon.

If the Vulcans weren't forthcoming with information, why didn't Humans simply go to another alien species? Again there were other aliens right on Earth

 

[exocomp]

At least they mentionned in Season 4 that they couldn't transport at warp. That's a piece of consistency that was needed at that point.

 

[ihno]

This is something that is always apparent, less as the show progresses through the successive seasons, but never completely disappears.
(...)
Yet the command crew of the NX-01 are depicted as nearly clueless,

It would be okay if they were portrayed as "clueless" but they portrayed them as careless and it was in a very forced way.

"No, we don't have to do any scans, let's just land on that foreign planet. It's fun and I'll take my cute dog for a walk on that foreign unexplored planet and let him run free."

To say it with Khan: it insulted my intelligence. They should have been portrayed as more careful, not less. That's how professionals act when they lack experience.

 

[Tenacity]

At least they mentionned in Season 4 that they couldn't transport at warp.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but even in the 24th century they didn't have the ability to transport at warp.

That's how professionals act when they lack experience.

Goes back to clueless, they weren't depicted as "professionals," by that point in time Earth should have had professional Starfleet officers with decades of experience.

There's no evidence that Archer was ever assigned to a starship before in any capacity, and Starfleet did have starships, we saw them. There's a fairly common belief among fans that Archer was given command of the NX-01 solely because of who his father was.

Yes, the warp five engine was new, but that should have been the only new thing.

 

[exocomp]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but even in the 24th century they didn't have the ability to transport at warp......

Not according to ST09. The old Spock says that Scotty has found a way to transport at warp and that means that it's a common point to both universes. It's even used by Khan to escape in the next movie.

 

[ihno]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but even in the 24th century they didn't have the ability to transport at warp.Goes back to clueless, they weren't depicted as "professionals," by that point in time Earth should have had professional Starfleet officers with decades of experience.

You can put it that way, the problem remained for me. I always had the impression that they wanted to make it different at all cost (while still doing copy and paste with TNG/VOY scripts) but they didn't think it through or didn't have the courage to do the prequel thing properly.

Yes, the warp five engine was new, but that should have been the only new thing.

Wasn't it convenient that all other races had a warp five engine too? It felt this way to me at least.

 

[jamestyler]

To say it with Khan: it insulted my intelligence. They should have been portrayed as more careful, not less. That's how professionals act when they lack experience.

While I agree, the episode you hinted at did pretty much hammer this home. The whole point was that humanity HAD been careful - the Vulcans made them be so careful that they were determined to actually experience things, not spend more time sitting and reading about an experience; but actually having it.

Filling out health and safety reports form a safe distance was exactly the opposite of what Archer wanted to do: and in turn, the show would have been a complete disaster if it was all about playing it safe and exploring in the exact same way we have to now.

Goes back to clueless, they weren't depicted as "professionals," by that point in time Earth should have had professional Starfleet officers with decades of experience.

Going by First Flight (I think - whatever it was that showed Archer go from pilot to captain) it was clear he and others were scouted and trained for their roles. Archer was an experienced Starfleet officer, as was Trip, Reed.... others shown had experience Starfleet needed (and drafted/hired).

The awe and wonder of exploring space shouldn't be something thats wiped out by an orginisation thats goal is to experience the awe and wonder of exploring space.

 

[ihno]

While I agree, the episode you hinted at did pretty much hammer this home. The whole point was that humanity HAD been careful - the Vulcans made them be so careful that they were determined to actually experience things, not spend more time sitting and reading about an experience; but actually having it.

Filling out health and safety reports form a safe distance was exactly the opposite of what Archer wanted to do: and in turn, the show would have been a complete disaster if it was all about playing it safe and exploring in the exact same way we have to now.

I'm sure the makers could have found a solution if only they wanted. For example they could do the scans offscreen and just mention it in a log. Like they did it several times before. Instead they let Archer give an order to stop the scans and take his cute dog.

I think very little of the first three seasons of Enterprise but not that the writers were imcapable to come up with something convincing or at least a little less insulting. The careless stupid naivity of the crew was done on purpose and yes, they had an excuse: the evil vulcans.

But I can't excuse a bad scripts with the content of those scripts. Just like in the third season where they showed torture in a very affirmative manner (parallel to the US government doing the same). You can always say "Archer had no chance, the ship was in danger".
So to me the Vulcans were part of the bad writing.

 

[jamestyler]

Enterprise was filled with flaws. But I'm not sure an episode where they see an M Class planet and write a log about it being fairly good television. Nor would I say an episode where things happen because they followed the core Trek logic of "exploration" being lumped into the bad script category.

Enterprise was the first ship do go out and explore. Not knowing whats out there and learning how to react to these situations is the entire point of the series. By this logic "convincing" or less insulting to these standards is just a show about fiing reports and peeking through a window every now and then.

 

[Ithekro]

Having space experience in starships is one thing, having deep space exploration experience was not something Earth had much of at all due to their relatively slow warp drives. Warp two, even warp three isn't going to get them anywhere in much less than two months. Warp two it take over half a year to get to the closest star system if one assumes it is roughly 4 to 5 light years between systems and don't plot a straight path that will take you years at a time to reach the next star to explore.

Archer, Robinson, and Trip were testing the new warp drives to make it past warp two, and later warp three before the design was approved for the NX-01 as a full scale warp five engine. Other races already have warp 6 and even a few warp 7 engine systems, so the humans are still slow, but they can now get places in less than a month that use to take a year. If Earth has any warp four engines, they would be very, very new when Enterprise was launched.

Archer explores in a similar fashion to Kirk, just without the rules Kirk would have to fall back on. Kirk has those rules because of what happened to Captains like Archer.

Speaking of starships, has it ever been determined if Intrepid is an older design than Enterprise, or a contemporary design with a similar warp engine?

 

[ihno]

Enterprise was filled with flaws. But I'm not sure an episode where they see an M Class planet and write a log about it being fairly good television.

Again: The episode I mentioned was one, where Archer explicitely told his first officer not to finish the scan from orbit, which Data, Spock etc. did all the time and it never took more screentime than 10 or 20 seconds.

Then - when this was finished - they went down exploring.

But in Enterprise they went down right away, so even the dumbest seven year old would not miss the point, that it was all an adventure."Put away the tricoder, let's have some fun and run, Pothos, run in the woods but don't get eaten, okay!"

Of course the writers didn't have too much time. Because afterwards there was some softporn in the "chamber for fondling" for the 15 year old male audience and inbetween some cheese feeding to the dog (for the 10 year old female audience). There wasn't too much time for convincing content.

 

[Tenacity]

Wasn't it convenient that all other races had a warp five engine too?

Didn't the Vulcans have a warp seven engine?

Not knowing whats out there

Besides the Vulcans there were dozens of other alien species walking around on Earth.

How could they possibly not know what was out there?

 

[ihno]

Didn't the Vulcans have a warp seven engine?

Ok, I won't use that argument again.

 

[exocomp]

Besides the Vulcans there were dozens of other alien species walking around on Earth.

How could they possibly not know what was out there?

They didn't know first hand and were a little suspicious of the Vulcans.

 

[jamestyler]

Again: The episode I mentioned was one, where Archer explicitely told his first officer not to finish the scan from orbit, which Data, Spock etc. did all the time and it never took more screentime than 10 or 20 seconds.

Then - when this was finished - they went down exploring.

But in Enterprise they went down right away, so even the dumbest seven year old would not miss the point, that it was all an adventure."Put away the tricoder, let's have some fun and run, Pothos, run in the woods but don't get eaten, okay!"

Of course the writers didn't have too much time. Because afterwards there was some softporn in the "chamber for fondling" for the 15 year old male audience and inbetween some cheese feeding to the dog (for the 10 year old female audience). There wasn't too much time for convincing content.

...I'm still not seeing the issue here at all. A show about space adventure where they have an adventure in space? A show about exploration where they find their first ever habitable planet and explore it first hand instead of sitting on their hands? The teenage approach to sexuality, fine. Dogs in space a bit of a reach? Ok. But complaining about the adventurous exploration element in a show about explorers having adventure whilst showcasing their enthusiasm to immerse themselves in exploring? Thats nitpicky, even for Trek.

Didn't the Vulcans have a warp seven engine?Besides the Vulcans there were dozens of other alien species walking around on Earth.

How could they possibly not know what was out there?

With that logic the entire touring industry would be dead on it's arse. Pyramids in Egypt? Cool. visit them? Nah, I know they're out there. It's cool.