Did T'Pol kill Trip?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by teacake, Nov 21, 2013.

  1. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You know how T'Pol was a stubborn pain in the butt and did NOT take E2 T'Pol's advice about letting Trip in? About following her heart? Well imagine if she had taken that advice, she and Trip might not have even been on board the Enterprise. They might have been off somewhere, with a family, or on another ship entirely. Perhaps they would have worked together on earth to further Vulcan Human relations or perhaps they might have been on Vulcan so that T'Pol could have a child. There are very good reasons they might have made a new life for themselves if T'Pol had followed her heart and Trip might never have died.
     
  2. borgboy

    borgboy Commodore Commodore

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    Interesting and possibly true. But Trip didn't really die anyways, he lives on in the novels :)
     
  3. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I swear the way he looks at Phlox as he's about to go into the chamber you can see the agreement in their eyes that this is, yes, a ruse and it will work.
     
  4. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    If you're trying to make me watch TATV for a second time, it's not going to work.

    I preferred the Archer/T'Pol "what if" pairing in "Twilight" over any of the Trip/T'Pol scenes. Did she kill him? No more than any former flame is responsible for the death of a lover years later.
     
  5. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But she was told by the future what to do and she did not do it.
     
  6. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    The future of "E2"? That's just a possible future, not a definite future. Maybe old lady T'Pol had a completely different memory of past events. Just like "Twilight" was a possible future that never came to pass.
     
  7. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But it was very good advice!
     
  8. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    That TNG lite episode is best forgotten altogether. After Terra Prime, Trip and T'Pol went on their happy way together as far as I'm concerned.
     
  9. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Trust TNG to not only kill Trip but make T'Pol out to be an utter idiot.
     
  10. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    Yup, I can't imagine why they thought any of that was a good idea. Thanks to JJ, I feel the whole episode was retconned away as it was just Riker's holo-foolishness. He and it are gone. I'd love for JJ to put a cameo of Trip and T'pol in the next film, Scotty meeting the designers of the Enterprise. The screams of outrage in the film forum would make it all worth it.
     
  11. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    Even if they stayed together I don't see them running off and starting a family right in the middle of the Romulan War.
     
  12. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It would make far more sense for Pecan Pie boy to get surgically altered and become a spy.
     
  13. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    Trip died? No, that was some weird holo-novel that Riker was watching.
     
  14. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    I watched TATV again recently on a channel that was rerunning the 4th season, which I had not seen since the first run several years ago. TATV & Alien-Space-Nazis aside, it is incredibly strong and consistent, with even the low points being no worse than average quality. Alien-Space-Nazis is a silly action adventure that I can do without, but it follows its own pseudo logic and is just about watchable. TATV just feels wrong in so many ways, but what really stands out is that the Enterprise story sections are 100% B&B, with the characters all reset to their Season 1 cyphers and nothing making any sense.

    Trip's death was so appallingly staged that (although I don't read the novels) it does help to justify the absurd circumstances around it:

    1) The aliens catch up with Enterprise despite having an explicitly stated slower ship, and Enterprise having a head start.

    2) The aliens dock and board Enterprise before anyone has a chance to react. By the time crewmembers do encounter them, the invaders have already been down to the docking bay and spotted Shran's ship, then up to wander the corridors some more.

    3) Despite have a whole squadron of MACOs on board, it is the Chief Engineer and Captain who lead the initiative, although completely unarmed and unprepared.

    4) Trip plain out ASKS the invaders to incapacitate his captain. A single smack on the FRONT of his head is enough to knock him out for several minutes - typical absurd TV logic!

    5) Trip's plan requires him to blow himself up, hopefully taking the aliens with him. Do I need to say anything else?

    The worst thing about the death scene (and TATV for that matter) is that it could have been inserted just about anywhere into the show's run with virtually no alterations. It is 3 minutes of generic action that kills a major character for no reason whatsoever. The contrast with the realistic and better developed characters in the previous week's episode is especially jarring. Heck, even Travis got the treatment! And seeing Hoshi step up to the plate was a joy to see.

    All it would take is to re-edit the last couple of scenes from "Terra Prime" slightly and it would bookend the series beautifully. The only problem it has at the moment is that the final scene is a bit of a downer.:wah:

    I realise that a lot of this has been said before by others, but watching the episode again just brought home to me what a mistake TATV was, from start to finish.
     
  15. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It is a piece of shit.
     
  16. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Would T'Pol's love have saved Trip? You know what I doubt it. It cannot be overstated how loyal both of these characters were to Archer. They both had stimulating careers in, or through, STARFLEET and they were both very passionate about that.

    I firmly believe that T'Pol would not let Future T'Pol's regret define how she was living her life. Time was very definitely on T'Pol's side, anyway. Change can be disconcerting, even for Vulcans, as evidenced by Valeris in TUC. T'Pol was comfortable with the way things were with Trip. And Trip was a Starfleet Officer.

    His life wasn't in danger often, but it happened. OK, let's pretend Trip and T'Pol moved to some cushy assignment where they could breed like rabbits in safety ... Picard's own family, hundreds of years later, died in - would you believe - a fire in their very own home. Finally and most importantly, how many of us ignore even - and especially - our own advice, when "following our heart" - or whenever it jolly well suits us?
     
  17. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    WTF was wrong with Picard's family anyway, were they such luddites they didn't have smoke alarms?
     
  18. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I try not to think about the Picard fire. It was just stupid. No more stupid, though, than having T'Pol and Trip be Friends with Benefits, whilst occassionally flirting with a deeper committment (future T'Pol, their daughter Elizabeth, etc.), for so long. It was just just the wrong way to keep it going. Starting out like this was fine, but something should've happened. They should've taken the relationship further, but that whole business with Kos and the occassional suggestion that Archer could've ended up with her ... I just kinda stopped giving a frog's fat ass about her love life, eventually.
     
  19. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    When I first heard about it (before I had watched much of ENT) I assumed it was a relationship. I was totally shocked that they only slept together once and then after that it was basically on hold for the rest of the series. Lame. You're right too about the way they gave the deeper commitment milestones but without the relationship.

    As to the Picard fire it deeply upsets me every time. What did they have to do that to Picard? He was already alone. Why did they have to kill off a child? It's not like we were going see Picard for another run of episodes and this was part of a significant character development for him. It was just a drive by.. for what? To give him pathos? He didn't need to be pumped up by a plot device with pathos, he was a fully developed character.
     
  20. jespah

    jespah Commodore Commodore

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    What is this TATV you speak of?