Did the Enterprise under Decker have a 1st officer?

[Xerxes1979]

Was it supposed to be Sonak? The film lists the deceased science officer as a lt. commander so that really shouldn't be the case.

The Enterprise was fairly well staffed for an emergency launch so why no XO?

 

[BillJ]

It looks like Sonak is wearing full Commander's braids in TMP. But Spock is called a Lt. Commander several times in early TOS episodes even though he is wearing full Commander's braids and is the first officer of the Enterprise.

 

[F. King Daniel]

"Number One" in "The Cage" was a Lt. Commander, as was George Kirk in STXI.

 

[Xerxes1979]

Well if that was the case then I suppose Sulu could have been first officer.

 

[BillJ]

"Number One" in "The Cage" was a Lt. Commander, as was George Kirk in STXI.

Weren't they both lieutenants?

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

"Number One" in "The Cage" was a Lt. Commander, as was George Kirk in STXI.

Weren't they both lieutenants?

Number One was addressed as "Lieutenant" in The Cage. Rank braids all seem to be the same for all officers, so that's all we have to go on.

George Kirk was referred to as "Lieutenant," if I remember right, but is wearing what appears to be rank braids of a Lt Commander.

 

[CaptainMatt]

I agree that Sulu was very likely the First Officer under Decker. He is the logical choice out of the familiar faces we see in the first film.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Was it supposed to be Sonak? The film lists the deceased science officer as a lt. commander so that really shouldn't be the case.

The Sonak character was created so that the full-Vulcan character, Xon, could be kept in the wings - in case Nimoy decided not to continue playing Spock in whatever followed TMP. Xon had been designed as a young officer: sciences but not first officer.

Remember that "ST: Phase II" already had twelve more scripts in various stages of development, and David Gautreaux (Commander Branch in TMP) was still under contract to play Xon. Kirk was to have been Xon's captain and Decker the first officer (until, or if, Shatner left after the first thirteen episodes). It may have been intended to let an exec/character rise to the top during that first half season?

It seems that no one gave any thought as to Decker's first officer, because everyone in the production knew what was coming next: Decker's demotion. Worrying about who else was getting demoted wasn't essential to the script. And yeah, it could have been Sonak. It really makes sense that it be Sulu and, since Takei was reluctant to return to ST II to just sit at the helm again, it would have been a good carrot to have offered him.

 

[Timo]

Then again, we have no reason to think that Decker's crew made an appearance in the movie. Decker's ship wasn't ready for a launch - so it's quite likely that his crew wasn't, either. When Kirk pushed for a faster launch, he was already placing himself on the center seat, so there would have been no need for calling in Decker's XO; Decker himself would be demoted to that position soon enough.

McCoy wasn't supposed to be in Decker's crew, either, and we aren't worrying about who and where Decker's own CMO was (might have been Lieutenant Chapel, might have been somebody else). Many such people were no doubt left ashore, as they would have counted on not being needed for several weeks at least; they could well have been on other ships or planets at the time, rather than wasting their acknowledged talents in idle waiting.

Sonak was Kirk's choice for CSO, but for serving under Decker - the fact that he would be serving under Kirk comes as a surprise to the Vulcan. Certainly Sulu, Uhura and Scotty appear to have been part of Decker's crew from the very start, although we could argue they were only part of his refit team and would otherwise have departed prior to the ship's launch.

The film lists the deceased science officer as a lt. commander so that really shouldn't be the case.

LtCmdr is a valid rank for Starfleet starship XO, as exemplified by LtCmdr Cavit and a number of nameless extras. However, Sonak was never identified as LtCmdr. Kirk always addresses him as "Commander", and while that may be ambiguous, his braid indeed is that of a full Commander.

George Kirk was referred to as "Lieutenant," if I remember right, but is wearing what appears to be rank braids of a Lt Commander.

George Kirk is not given any rank in dialogue while he's alive; Robau calls him "Mister". But Pike calls Jim Kirk's dad "Lieutenant George Kirk" at his face after the bar brawl. We glimpse George's braid here:

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/xihd/trekxihd0155.jpg

Two solid stripes, which in TOS would be full Commander. But one stripe is thicker than the other, which leaves us wondering. Here is Robau's braid:

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/xihd/trekxihd0119.jpg

Looks like three stripes, when TOS had Captain at two solid stripes and one dashed. So, is a narrow stripe the same as dashed? If one of Robau's is narrower than the other two, then the system is more or less the same as in TOS (and in the 2250s scenes of the movie), and George Kirk is a Lieutenant Commander. If not, then all bets are off.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

Then again, we have no reason to think that Decker's crew made an appearance in the movie. Decker's ship wasn't ready for a launch - so it's quite likely that his crew wasn't, either. When Kirk pushed for a faster launch, he was already placing himself on the center seat, so there would have been no need for calling in Decker's XO; Decker himself would be demoted to that position soon enough.

For what its worth, Roddenberry's novelization of TMP (non-canon, of course) states that Kirk's old crew had been recalled to the Enterprise for the V'Ger mission prior to Kirk requesting his command back. This would seem to indicate that Sulu was not assigned to the Enterprise refit project. My guess would be that Scotty was Decker's XO during the refit and that a regular XO would have been assigned when the ship was recommissioned and placed on active duty.

 

[Pauln6]

The novelisation also listed Chapel as the CMO who gladly stepped aside for McCoy but that isn't very realistic. She would have been a recently qualified junior doctor and they should operate under supervision. It is possible that she was expected to function as the CMO just for the Vger mission pending the appointment of a proper senior doctor.

 

[Therin of Andor]

My guess would be that Scotty was Decker's XO during the refit and that a regular XO would have been assigned when the ship was recommissioned and placed on active duty.

Yep. That works.

 

[Mr Pointy Ears]

Sonak was to be the new science officer.

 

[Tomalak]

LtCmdr is a valid rank for Starfleet starship XO, as exemplified by LtCmdr Cavit and a number of nameless extras. However, Sonak was never identified as LtCmdr. Kirk always addresses him as "Commander", and while that may be ambiguous, his braid indeed is that of a full Commander.

For that matter, rank pips suggest Chakotay was only a Lieutenant Commander.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ And the 'thin' strips worn by STXI characters are equivalent to 'broken' stripes in TOS. Beyond that, the rank stripe system is identical in STXI and TOS. (In STXI, McCoy, Scotty and George Kirk all wear one solid and one thin stripe, thus making them all Lieutenant Commander in rank; Robau and James Kirk wear two solid and one thin stripe, which is consistent for the rank of Captain.)

 

[Timo]

Incidentally, where would we have a good shot at Robau's cuff markings? I drew a blank both at the TrekCore caps and a cursory viewing of the movie itself.

Timo Saloniemi