Did Peter David call out J.M. Dillard?

[Destructor]

I just finished 'Before Dishonor'- it was not terrible but I didn't really enjoy it. I think Peter David's writing style is just too 'cartoony' for my liking. I mean the Borg cube driving into the sun and spewing out six other ships, and 'shrinking' Pluto? It was like Transformers or something. That's the same reason I gave up on New Frontier- as soon as a planet turned out to be an egg with a massive, warp-capable bird inside it, I tuned out.

But that's not why I'm posting. There's a really odd section in the middle of book, a conversation between Geordi and Seven. It goes something like:

"So anyway Seven, back in some other Peter David novel that you haven't read and isn't part of the relaunch continuity and is badly recapped on Memory Beta, there was ANOTHER female Borg, which surprised us at the time because we didn't know Borg had gender and that there were female Borg drones."

"Of course there are female Borg drones, only a fool would state otherwise."

"Don't talk to me, talk to the experts."

Was it me, or was this a direct reference to the repeated references in the previous novel 'Resistance', where it was said that Borg did not have gender and that the Borg Queen had to be created by putting 'female hormones' into a regular drone (or some such rot). This made me scratch my head while reading 'Resistance', so I thought maybe this was a rebuke to this, but even if I agree that the sentiment should have been rebuked, it seemed an odd way to do it. Who edited this book? Shouldn't that have been something an editor would pick up on, or was it actually considered funny/a plus?

 

[captcalhoun]

no, it was actually a dig at the Infamous Richard Arnold, who forced PAD to have a disclaimer on Vendetta because of the aforementioned female drone.

IRA claimed there were no female Borg, despite a clearly-female Borg appearing in Q Who.

 

[DS9Continuing]

Yeah, that was a dumb thing to have claimed. Clearly there were female Borg. Sure, their female-ness was irrelevant, because the Borg don't reproduce that way, but that doesn't mean that the assimilated life-forms didn't have a sex to begin with, or that the Borg pointlessly remove all signs of sex from a body when they assimilate it.

Playing devil's advocate, RA might have been basing his decision on "Q Who" where assimilation hasn't been invented yet. Although I'm pretty sure Vendetta came out after "BoBW."

But I also agree that all that business about Female Gel in Resistance came out of nowhere and made no sense too. Talk about a computer program to turn an ordinary drone into a Queen model, sure, but hormones? That's just daft.

 

[Sxottlan]

Was it me, or was this a direct reference to the repeated references in the previous novel 'Resistance', where it was said that Borg did not have gender and that the Borg Queen had to be created by putting 'female hormones' into a regular drone (or some such rot).

If it was Before Dishonor complaining about the quality of Resistance, I'd say that's a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[F. King Daniel]

It was a smackdown on Gene Rodenberry and Richard Arnold, stemming from the "there are no female Borg" thing that led to Vendetta having a disclaimer at the start saying that the author's interpretation of the Star Trek universe is not Gene Rodenberry's.

 

[William Leisner]

There's a really odd section in the middle of book, a conversation between Geordi and Seven. It goes something like:

"So anyway Seven, back in some other Peter David novel that you haven't read and isn't part of the relaunch continuity and is badly recapped on Memory Beta, there was ANOTHER female Borg, which surprised us at the time because we didn't know Borg had gender and that there were female Borg drones."

[...]

Was it me, or was this a direct reference to the repeated references in the previous novel 'Resistance'[...]?

Um... from your little paraphrased recap, you CLEARLY know what this passage was in reference to, and that it wasn't Resistance.

 

[Trek Survivor]

Was it me, or was this a direct reference to the repeated references in the previous novel 'Resistance', where it was said that Borg did not have gender and that the Borg Queen had to be created by putting 'female hormones' into a regular drone (or some such rot).

If it was Before Dishonor complaining about the quality of Resistance, I'd say that's a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

QFT.

"Before Dishonor" was a truly, truly awful book. Peter David clearly "lost it" ("it" as in 'talent') somewhere between 1994 and 2007.

Incidentally, my "Vendetta" edition (UK, from Titan Books) doesn't have the disclaimer. Obviously RA only cared that US fans knew the truth!!

 

[C.E. Evans]

Makes me kind of suspicious now about the dedication in the book:

"This one is for Richard, the biggest windmill I know."

 

[Smitty]

Maybe the Borg Queen was a Borg drag queen and had simply misplaced its' feather boa? Oh wait, wrong thread...

Um... from your little paraphrased recap, you CLEARLY know what this passage was in reference to, and that it wasn't Resistance.

That raises my curiosity...

 

[Corran Horn]

I actually don't think there was enough coordination between the two books (or the early TNG relaunch) for PAD to even be aware of the 'sleight' in Resistance...if there even was one.

The varying characterizations of the 'new' senior staff seems to show that well enough.

 

[zarkon]

I actually don't think there was enough coordination between the two books (or the early TNG relaunch) for PAD to even be aware of the 'sleight' in Resistance...if there even was one.

The varying characterizations of the 'new' senior staff seems to show that well enough.

Peter David said he was given a copy of Resistance but not Q & A (Which is why the characterisations are so off compared to that book).

But yeah, this is a jibe at the expense of Arnold, not Dillard.

 

[Distorted Humor]

Intrasting, as Vendetta was one of my fav Trek novels growing up....but never got around to reading it afraid it would ruin my fond memories of it.

 

[Shon T'Hara]

Intrasting, as Vendetta was one of my fav Trek novels growing up....but never got around to reading it afraid it would ruin my fond memories of it.

I hope you mean "rereading," since what you wrote would be ... strange.

 

[James Cole]

"So anyway Seven, back in some other Peter David novel that you haven't read and isn't part of the relaunch continuity and is badly recapped on Memory Beta, there was ANOTHER female Borg, which surprised us at the time because we didn't know Borg had gender and that there were female Borg drones."

One thing to keep in mind is that the TNG relaunch, DS9 relaunch, and Memory Omega Mirror Universe are all deeply intertwined with NF. Vendetta is already a major part of NF's backstory anyway, so despite some of the major flaws of the early TNG relaunch books, at least that part was consistent. If anything, Vendetta could be considered one of the earliest books to be published that is directly part of the interconnected relaunch continuity.

Pulling core NF backstory out of the current continuity would be like trying to take the individual mandate out of the Obama health care law -- it would bring the whole thing crashing down.

Blind Man's Bluff has some timeline issues, but they are fairly "fixable" with some creative interpretations of the text.

Now, it will be interesting to see how the other relaunch books deal with the shunt drive from NF's Turnaround used by the Paradox. That's probably right up there with Starfleet having slipstream if they pursue further research on it.

 

[Idran]

One thing to keep in mind is that the TNG relaunch, DS9 relaunch, and Memory Omega Mirror Universe are all deeply intertwined with NF. Vendetta is already a major part of NF's backstory anyway, so despite some of the major flaws of the early TNG relaunch books, at least that part was consistent. If anything, Vendetta could be considered one of the earliest books to be published that is directly part of the interconnected relaunch continuity.

I dunno if I'd call them part of the interconnected relaunch continuity, since those books are somewhat more unidirectionally connected. Other books refer to PAD's stuff, but beyond a few small exceptions, PAD's stuff doesn't often mention the relaunch continuity or make excessive effort to jive with it.

But I guess this is kind of quibbling semantics.

 

[Destructor]

There's a really odd section in the middle of book, a conversation between Geordi and Seven. It goes something like:

"So anyway Seven, back in some other Peter David novel that you haven't read and isn't part of the relaunch continuity and is badly recapped on Memory Beta, there was ANOTHER female Borg, which surprised us at the time because we didn't know Borg had gender and that there were female Borg drones."

[...]

Was it me, or was this a direct reference to the repeated references in the previous novel 'Resistance'[...]?

Um... from your little paraphrased recap, you CLEARLY know what this passage was in reference to, and that it wasn't Resistance.

Uhm, no. I had just read 'Resistance', as I stated. The book was making reference to 'Vendetta', which I've never read and never will read, and was badly recapped on Memory Beta so I couldn't like, look it up and see what the hell they were talking about. The only reason I knew this is because I googled the name of the female borg they were talking about, because I wanted to know what they were talking about and I was sure it hadn't happened in the show itself.

This is a major bugbear for the relaunch books, the way they keep referencing prior novels without some kind of indicator that there's prior knowledge required. The Titan series did the same thing with the offshoot of humanity that lived in the Small Magellanic Cloud- it was referencing a completely different book that I'd not read. I had no idea that 'Vendetta' did or did not make reference to female borg or neuter borg. All I did know was that the previous book, 'Resistance', did make reference to the borg being neuter, and it struck me as odd when I read it because Seven was not neuter and was not the borg queen, so I didn't understand the books' repeated reference to neuter borg.

 

[Christopher]

^And "The Cage," the very first Trek episode ever produced, referenced prior events on Rigel VII even though those events were never depicted. Just because a story references some earlier event, that doesn't mean you can't comprehend the story without having seen that earlier event. Heck, just about every story depends on references to things from its characters' pasts. Like, say, Raiders of the Lost Ark, which is heavily driven by the unseen past relationships Indiana Jones had with Marion and Belloq. Or Shakespeare's The Tempest, which relies on the history of Prospero and his exile. You didn't get to see those past events, but the current story tells you what you need to know about them.

So no, prior knowledge isn't "required" to follow a story that ties into past events. The story itself will give you all the relevant knowledge you need. That's the way it works whether those prior events were told in an earlier book/film/play or not.

 

[Idran]

So no, prior knowledge isn't "required" to follow a story that ties into past events. The story itself will give you all the relevant knowledge you need. That's the way it works whether those prior events were told in an earlier book/film/play or not.

If well-written, of course; there certainly are stories that require knowledge of past events from previously-published stories which aren't actually explained in-story. It's a common problem in, for example, poorer DC/Marvel comics to assume knowledge of past events without even a recap, let alone an in-story explanation.

But for Destructor's specific example, and for the most part in the current Star Trek EU (I don't want to say entirely just to be safe, but I can't remember of any examples that did do something like that) I'd have to agree with you, yeah; everything you need to know from Vendetta is in the book.

 

[Bob Karo]

^And "The Cage," the very first Trek episode ever produced, referenced prior events on Rigel VII even though those events were never depicted. Just because a story references some earlier event, that doesn't mean you can't comprehend the story without having seen that earlier event. Heck, just about every story depends on references to things from its characters' pasts. Like, say, Raiders of the Lost Ark, which is heavily driven by the unseen past relationships Indiana Jones had with Marion and Belloq. Or Shakespeare's The Tempest, which relies on the history of Prospero and his exile. You didn't get to see those past events, but the current story tells you what you need to know about them.

So no, prior knowledge isn't "required" to follow a story that ties into past events. The story itself will give you all the relevant knowledge you need. That's the way it works whether those prior events were told in an earlier book/film/play or not.

Hell, look at Buckaroo Banzai.

 

[Therin of Andor]

It's a common problem in, for example, poorer DC/Marvel comics to assume knowledge of past events without even a recap, let alone an in-story explanation.

When I was akid I often got to read a cousin's random, hand-me-down "Teen Titans" comics - and I never picked up on the fact that there was a series of unfolding "B plots".