Did or did not Kirk notice Spock leave the bridge in TWOK

[enterprisecvn65]

OK I have to admit this one has always puzzled me and I've never been able to feel definitively one way or the other.

So everything from the filming standpoint. From Spock's close up while silently considering the options, to Kirk's slightly frantic order to Sulu to get the Enterprise out of here while Spock looked like he got into the turbolift unnoticed and especially Kirk noticing Spock's empty chair when McCoy told him he'd better get to the engine room quick. Would strongly suggest that Kirk had no idea Spock had left the bridge during the whole genesis countdown and even a minute or so after it exploded.

But I can't believe that for almost 5 or 6 minutes Kirk wouldn't notice that Spock had mysteriously disappeared and only realized it after McCoy's message. Yes it was an extremely catastrophic fate they were all facing and things were frantic to say the least, but I have to believe at some point Kirk would have asked Spock for info or advice during the countdown or said good bye to his best friend when the end looked inevitable, or said something to Spock when they warped away to safety.

Did Kirk really not notice at all until McCoy's call. Or did he realize Spock had left to probably see if he could anything to repair the Warp drive not knowing he'd have to sacrifice himself to do it and only realizing something was terribly wrong when he heard McCoy's voice. I could accept this explanation, but they don't give any indication in the scene that this is the case. Everything, especially the look at the empty chair indicates Kirk was totally oblivious to Spock missing.

What do you think the director meant to portray?

 

[Haytil]

I think he may have noticed when he left, but had forgotten by the time McCoy contacted him.

Kind of like when you put cookies in the oven and start a round of Goldeneye because you have enough time and you start dominating the other players, then all of a sudden you remember you put those cookies in the oven 20 minutes ago and they're all burnt to hell.

Kirk's startled reaction is just like that.

 

[Gassy Man]

It always seemed pretty clear to me that Kirk did not know that Spock had left the bridge. We know that Kirk is not at the top of his game, and the story leads us to believe he is facing the Kobayashi Maru scenario for real. There are only minutes, and he’s racing to figure out a solution in an unwinnable situation. That Spock makes the decision for him, I thought, was a tremendous moment of both friendship and sacrifice.
We actually have foreshadowing in an earlier scene. Right before the Reliant attacks, Uhura says they claim their Chambers coil is malfunctioning. We see Spock already going to his scanner, right before Kirk swivels to ask him for the same. It’s a wonderful bit of character on both their parts, showing not only that they are a well-oiled machine but also that Spock is slightly ahead of the curve. He would essentially do the same thing in the climax of the film while Kirk is preoccupied.
These are the moments that the turgid TMP never got right. Just little moments of pure character that not only made them believable but also made us remember why we liked the characters in the first place. Spock’s decision to sacrifice himself – you know that’s what he decides in the moments he overhears what is happening in Engineering – is handled perfectly and so much in character, which makes the outcome even more tragic. The same goes for Kirk’s lapse in noticing his friend leaving.
Characters do not have to be perfect. They can make mistakes. And so long as we understand why they make those mistakes, we can like them just as much, if not more, than if they were perfect.

 

[Lance]

It might've been sold better if the science station had still been located behind Kirk (where it had been in TMP). It'd be plausible, in a tense and frantic situation, that Kirk wouldn't turn directly behind him, his eyes instead focused completely on the screen ahead. But it seems less so that he wouldn't glance sideways and not notice the empty chair where his science officer had been only moments before.

 

[Ithekro]

Well Spock should be a little ahead of Kirk in this situation...Spock is the captain. Kirk is the flag officer guy that flies a desk most of the time. And we can't gauge just how long Kirk has been flying a desk while Spock's been commanding Enterprise (even if only as a training ship).

 

[Commishsleer]

Kirk didn't know. Thats the whole point.
But he had the son he'd never seen on the bridge. He'd known him for 2 hours and then wasn't able to save him.
I think if Carol and David weren't there he would have gathered his friends around him in his final minutes and noticed Spock's absence.

 

[Timo]

The odd thing is, when Kirk is out of his depth, wouldn't he normally be calling Spock and/or Scotty for options? And since Scotty has already said he can do squat and is extremely busy doing it and now doesn't even take Kirk's calls, wouldn't Kirk be breathing on Spock's neck until it turned green or until something useful came out of the Science Officer, sorry, Captain?

Then again, David is the specialist du jour, in addition to being the most interesting person on the bridge for Kirk.

Then again, David did say he can do squat, too.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[enterprisecvn65]

It always seemed pretty clear to me that Kirk did not know that Spock had left the bridge. We know that Kirk is not at the top of his game, and the story leads us to believe he is facing the Kobayashi Maru scenario for real. There are only minutes, and he’s racing to figure out a solution in an unwinnable situation. That Spock makes the decision for him, I thought, was a tremendous moment of both friendship and sacrifice.
We actually have foreshadowing in an earlier scene. Right before the Reliant attacks, Uhura says they claim their Chambers coil is malfunctioning. We see Spock already going to his scanner, right before Kirk swivels to ask him for the same. It’s a wonderful bit of character on both their parts, showing not only that they are a well-oiled machine but also that Spock is slightly ahead of the curve. He would essentially do the same thing in the climax of the film while Kirk is preoccupied.
These are the moments that the turgid TMP never got right. Just little moments of pure character that not only made them believable but also made us remember why we liked the characters in the first place. Spock’s decision to sacrifice himself – you know that’s what he decides in the moments he overhears what is happening in Engineering – is handled perfectly and so much in character, which makes the outcome even more tragic. The same goes for Kirk’s lapse in noticing his friend leaving.
Characters do not have to be perfect. They can make mistakes. And so long as we understand why they make those mistakes, we can like them just as much, if not more, than if they were perfect.

I get what you're saying and you make some good points and I could totally buy into it if it was Chekov that suddenly left to fix the warp engines and Kirk was totally oblivious until he heard McCoy.
But this is SPOCK we're talking about here. Yes his girlfriend and son were on the bridge which might have been a distraction, but the truth Kirk was far closer to Spock than to either of those two. There were so many reasons for Kirk to need Spock in those 6 or so minutes. Whether it be for info or a reading or some kind of last ditch plan or whether it was to say thank you old friend when they were 30 seconds away from the end. Or to ask what Spock thought of the Genesis planet developing or get some information about it after they had warped safely away.
I know why they had Kirk apparently totally oblivious to Spock being gone, because it made it more dramatic when McCoy told him to get down here and he suddenly noticed the empty chair and the realization that something terrible had happened hit him like a ton of bricks.
From a practical standpoint it would have made more sense for Kirk to take a quick glance as he got into the turbolift and think "OK Spock's going to see if he can help, I trust him, he knows what he's doing" and then immediately get back to doing what he can from the bridge to save them. Not realizing of course that the only way to fix the situation was for Spock to die.

So yeah it made it more dramatic for Kirk to be completely ignorant until the call came. But it just seems a little far fetched that this man who was Kirk's closest friend and confidant for 20 years could just walk away and Kirk not notice at all.

But hey it's still a great scene regardless so I guess I should just STFU and take it for what it is.

 

[Commishsleer]

The odd thing is, when Kirk is out of his depth, wouldn't he normally be calling Spock and/or Scotty for options? And since Scotty has already said he can do squat and is extremely busy doing it and now doesn't even take Kirk's calls, wouldn't Kirk be breathing on Spock's neck until it turned green or until something useful came out of the Science Officer, sorry, Captain?

Then again, David is the specialist du jour, in addition to being the most interesting person on the bridge for Kirk.

Then again, David did say he can do squat, too.

Timo Saloniemi

TOS Kirk woud have called on Spock.
This is Admiral Kirk.

Its funny though, Spock and Kirk worked flawlessly as a team to get the command code of the Reliant and the repair subterfuge. I can only think its David and Carol being added to the mix that distracts Kirk.
When I first saw TWOK I also wondered why Kirk wasn't trying to stand there in his final moments with Spock and McCoy. It wasn't like he was wrapped around David or Carol. I thought he would have at least sort out Spock. Although it was dramatically fantastic the way they did it, it would have been more in character for Kirk to seek out Spock and be told by Saavik that he was assisting Scott or something I suppose.

 

[Memory Alpha]

Spock disappears in TMP as well, then turns up outside with a thruster suit and Kirk doesn't realize it. Also in ST V when they start that ridiculously long climb up the ladder. Spock seems to have a way of sort of slipping away like that when things are chaotic and no one notices. I bet there are other examples.

Anyway, I think it's a particularly powerful scene when Kirk looks over at the empty chair and the expression on his face is, "Uh-oh." I really like that scene. There was a lot of chaos going on, so I don't think it's a flaw that Spock manages to slip away in that scene.

 

[Tom Hendricks]

Kirk didn't know, they reinforce the fact when Scotty calls and says "Captain, you have to get down here." He looks over to Spock's station.

 

[BK613]

I think he knew that Spock went to Engineering to help; it's the only explanation that allows Kirk not to be seeking his input during those four minutes. However, he obviously doesn't know that Spock is down there sacrificing himself for his shipmates. Thus the look-at-the-chair-Oh Crap moment.

 

[f14peter]

Kirk DOES KNOW that Spock is not on the bridge. At one point during the Genesis countdown, he goes over to Spock's science station to examine the displays, standing where Spock would sit, and at least one other time he looks over to David standing right next to Spock's (empty) chair. Kirk also receives the usual time/distance reports from other members of the crew, something Spock often did.

To not notice Spock missing in this circumstance is obliviousness of the can't-walk-and-chew-gum-at-the-same-time degree.

I believe Kirk's glance toward Spock's chair and his reaction is not the "holy crap, where the colorful-metaphor is Spock????????" it may appear to be and more symbolic. It's not that Spock is not on the bridge, but that Spock is not where he usually is: at his friend and Captain's side.

 

[enterprisecvn65]

Kirk DOES KNOW that Spock is not on the bridge. At one point during the Genesis countdown, he goes over to Spock's science station to examine the displays, standing where Spock would sit, and at least one other time he looks over to David standing right next to Spock's (empty) chair. Kirk also receives the usual time/distance reports from other members of the crew, something Spock often did.

To not notice Spock missing in this circumstance is obliviousness of the can't-walk-and-chew-gum-at-the-same-time degree.

I believe Kirk's glance toward Spock's chair and his reaction is not the "holy crap, where the colorful-metaphor is Spock????????" it may appear to be and more symbolic. It's not that Spock is not on the bridge, but that Spock is not where he usually is: at his friend and Captain's side.

I agree with you totally that it would be almost beyond belief for Kirk not to notice Spock's absence during that scene.

All I'm saying is the way it's filmed, from the close up of Spock's face at he quickly weighs his options and acts on his own, to the fact he sort of breezed behind Kirk into the turbolift when Kirk was distracted by telling Sulu to get us the hell out of here, and most glaringly the fact he seemed to only realize Spock was gone when McCoy called and he noticed the empty chair all seem to strongly indicate the film makers intent was to imply Kirk didn't even notice Spock was gone.

Like I said it's almost beyond belief to think Kirk wouldn't notice, but that's the way the shooting of the film looks like it wants us to think

Like I said either way it's a great scene and it's not a deal breaker, just a little nagging detail I've never really been able to decide one way or the other for sure.

 

[f14peter]

Kirk DOES KNOW that Spock is not on the bridge. At one point during the Genesis countdown, he goes over to Spock's science station to examine the displays, standing where Spock would sit, and at least one other time he looks over to David standing right next to Spock's (empty) chair. Kirk also receives the usual time/distance reports from other members of the crew, something Spock often did.

To not notice Spock missing in this circumstance is obliviousness of the can't-walk-and-chew-gum-at-the-same-time degree.

I believe Kirk's glance toward Spock's chair and his reaction is not the "holy crap, where the colorful-metaphor is Spock????????" it may appear to be and more symbolic. It's not that Spock is not on the bridge, but that Spock is not where he usually is: at his friend and Captain's side.

I agree with you totally that it would be almost beyond belief for Kirk not to notice Spock's absence during that scene.

All I'm saying is the way it's filmed, from the close up of Spock's face at he quickly weighs his options and acts on his own, to the fact he sort of breezed behind Kirk into the turbolift when Kirk was distracted by telling Sulu to get us the hell out of here, and most glaringly the fact he seemed to only realize Spock was gone when McCoy called and he noticed the empty chair all seem to strongly indicate the film makers intent was to imply Kirk didn't even notice Spock was gone.

Like I said it's almost beyond belief to think Kirk wouldn't notice, but that's the way the shooting of the film looks like it wants us to think

Like I said either way it's a great scene and it's not a deal breaker, just a little nagging detail I've never really been able to decide one way or the other for sure.

you are quite correct, at first blush the way it was filmed/directed/acted does give the impression that Kirk only notices Spock's absence after McCoy's summons. First time or two through the movie, that was indeed my impression until I noticed that really wasn't the case.

 

[Timo]

The difference between "noticing" and "realizing" sounds like sufficient justification for how the scene plays out...

Spock seems to have a way of sort of slipping away like that when things are chaotic and no one notices. I bet there are other examples.

Heh, good point. Goes well with his other elvish qualities (and no, I'm not speaking of his hip movements).

Perhaps that's an actual psychic skill that Spock honed to perfection in his unhappy childhood?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Grant]

I think he knew that Spock went to Engineering to help; it's the only explanation that allows Kirk not to be seeking his input during those four minutes. However, he obviously doesn't know that Spock is down there sacrificing himself for his shipmates. Thus the look-at-the-chair-Oh Crap moment.

Bingo.

Kirk DOES KNOW that Spock is not on the bridge. At one point during the Genesis countdown, he goes over to Spock's science station to examine the displays, standing where Spock would sit, and at least one other time he looks over to David standing right next to Spock's (empty) chair. Kirk also receives the usual time/distance reports from other members of the crew, something Spock often did.

To not notice Spock missing in this circumstance is obliviousness of the can't-walk-and-chew-gum-at-the-same-time degree.

I believe Kirk's glance toward Spock's chair and his reaction is not the "holy crap, where the colorful-metaphor is Spock????????" it may appear to be and more symbolic. It's not that Spock is not on the bridge, but that Spock is not where he usually is: at his friend and Captain's side.

Bingo redux

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

^Agree with these comments. Also, keep in mind that Kirk's is actually surprised moments before that when it's McCoy who answers his message rather than Scotty. For all we, Kirk's next words would have been, "Get started on repairs as soon as possible, and have Captain Spock make his way back to the bridge once he's finished assisting you," had everything turned out okay. It's only when McCoy sounds so shaken that he looks at Spock's chair and begins to understand what's happened.

I'm sure he knew Spock had left the bridge to go to Engineering, but he probably never guessed that Spock's solution for saving the ship would involve him sacrificing his own life.

--Sran

 

[Gassy Man]

I don't buy it. I think the scene is meant to play out as though Kirk is so preoccupied, he doesn't realize Spock is gone. That may sound strange, but don't forget that technically, Spock was the ship's captain and not its science officer, even though he temporarily assumes that position.

 

[Ssosmcin]

He probably thought Spock had to pinch a loaf and he'd be back in a second. Maybe it was Taco Tuesday on the Enterprise.