Did Kim tell "his" parents that he was a fake?

[Guy Gardener]

In the episode where they finally got the Midas Array working that all the crew got three minutes of personal conversations with friends and family did you see the sad sack that Kim Pulled? What is he? Five years old? And then the rest of the crew rallied around him, to hand over their minutes because the big baby was going to have a blubb.

I didn't even expect this sort of shit from teen Wesley in his most oedipedal moments or even fricking Naomi because she's a tiny eeny weeny little girl.

So in all these hearfelt conversations where he declared how much he missed his moms tit (The real/original Harry Kim claims to remember being born in the second or third episode.) did he ever admit that these people forced to listen to him drone on about his insecuritities and how the universe is not fair and against him, how all the girls don't like him, won't kiss him, even though he's really cool and handsome, that while they're committed to put up with their own children no matter how pathetic they are, that he is not their child, but instead the some sort of duplicate issued from a cosmic space vagina oddity, and not only do they not even need to listen to him prattle on, or even answer his calls but they can tell him to fuck off and stop stalking them.

STALKING!

(Naomi is in the same boat, but it is she who is being lied to and she may never forgive the woman pretending to be her mother!)

I mean it's like if Janeways dogs got run over, and Mark found replacements at the pound that looked just the same, y'know in case that woman came back from the dead to roundhouse him in the prick for doing wrong by her. But of course it would be two to the prick because lying to her is doing wrong doubly so.

The obligations the Kim's had to Harry Kim's "personality" ended with the physical death of their son, and it is unfair to prolong their suffering pretending to be proud of Harry, having to deal with A Harry when they are not even allowed to know that they should mourn for their Harry.

He's stealing these people and they don't even know it.

What a bastard.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

How do you know he and Naomi are the copies?

Perhaps they are the only two "real" ones, and everyone else is a xerox?

 

[David cgc]

Well, there are three ways to look at it;

— The crapped-up Voyager was the original, and Harry Kim and Naomi are duplicates.

— The pristine Voyager was the original, and Harry Kim and Naomi are the only ones who aren't duplicates.

— Both Voyagers were duplicates, and had an equal claim on the history of the "original" ship and crew.

You've also got the same problem with Tom Riker. Maybe Will was the duplicate, and he stole Tom (the real Will's) life. You could probably make a similar argument for Captain Kirk, Tuvok, Neelix, and Be'lanna after their various transporter accidents were resolved. Not to mention Worf or anyone who ever went to the Mirror Universe; can we really be sure they ended up in the right universe in the end? And isn't Miles O'brian six hours older than he should be thanks to Romulan treachery?

Considering all of this, I figure Starfleet has a rule to the effect that, "A difference that makes no difference is no difference," and since everyone on Voyager after "Deadlock" was physically, psychologically, spiritually, and in all other ways identical to the people who were Voyager the week before "Deadlock," and no one and nothing had a surviving duplicate, it's official policy that the larger ontological and philosophical questions could be safely shelved.

Besides, don't forget that everyone's cells are continuously dying off and being replaced by new copies in the ultimate expression of the Ship of Theseus paradox. Pretty much everyone on that ship had been entirely "replaced" by the time they got home.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You have a first class mind David.

If they are all duplicates because the original was destroyed everything is pie, and the Kim's shouldn't have any problems answering calls from any of the other thousands of Quicksilver Voyagers making their way to earth too if they'll accept this changeling if he owned up(They had to spawn, very few life forms don't have a predilection to replicate, and lets face it, the origainl Janeway never would have thought that they would have made a ship, and did they just build the one ship, and every ship since it was alive would want a crew and feel less without one...) so how much responsibility do the Kims have to burden while supporting the mewling of all these nigh infinite other "sons" of theirs who need constant propping to make it from end of the day to the other?

On the other hand, if Harry was real and everyone else wasn't? Doesn't that mean that he was the only human being aboard that ship who had graduated from the academy and dupplicated identically or not, no one else on voyager had the life experiences to match their memories, that they were not in Starfleet and Kim was the Only officer on board, and by default the Captain and it would have been criminally negligent and suicidal on his part to remain beholden to a chain of command that no longer exists? Harry Kim either lacks courage or conviction to rise to a position of authority, or he knew he was the fake, but if he wasn't, the ship should have been his until he felt that the "replacement" crew could actually cut the mustard.

 

[Shatnertage]

Honestly I think he patched Senator Vreenak in on a conference call, and let him break the news.

 

[exodus]

They aren't fake.
They're the same concept as twins.

 

[Anwar]

He's the same case as Time-displaced O'Brien in DS9. Technically O'Brien is from an alternate timeline but since the difference is so tiny and by a few hours he IS O'Brien for all purposes.

 

[Guy Gardener]

twins, and refugees from alternate/collapsed timelines, did everything they remember doing. They lived their lives. The good and the bad. Nothing inherited. It's their own.

(Would Keiko have accepted the new Miles if he had spent those 6 hours growing a moustache AND HE KEPT IT?)

The "spacial scission" from Deadlock created a new life form while simultaneously imprinting old memories into it's brain (a hundred and 50 times over.). (I've heard this argument from cunning Christians and Bill Hicks. The earth was made 6 thousand years ago, but god made it that it was millions of years old when it was created. Hiding dinosaur bones to fuck with the athiests. Basically the earth is a forgery (Think of those dicky mechanics they crack open odometers to manage expectations?) and most science is belief in a parlour trick because scientists don't know when God is having a bit of a laugh.)

Which is exactly the defence a lawyer would use if this new Harry Kim was being accused of murder, theft or mayhem in some alien court of law supposedly committed by the old original Harry Kim no matter if he is guilty or innocent.

Both my grandparents on my mothers side are (identicalish) twins. I believe that their siblings dated once or twice in the 40s but I doubt they swung whether they owned up to secret swinging or it was intentional.

It's not the same.

 

[exodus]

^^According to the show, they were.

 

[Guy Gardener]

No.

KIM: I'm not sure. I mean, this isn't really my ship, and you're not really my captain. And yet, you are and there's no difference. But I know there's a difference. Or is there? It's all a little weird.
JANEWAY: Mister Kim, we're Starfleet officers. Weird is part of the job.

According to the show "it's weird".

besides surely the fact that the scission could not duplicate antimatter means that the ship with antimatter in the beginning was the mastermold and the other was the duplicate because it's ant... No, what, the ships were "sharing" and cosmic darwinism was fating who "deserved" the antimatter more than the other.

Either the original Voyager was destroyed or the so called master Mold, a third ship headed off in a third direction (Maybe the duplicating process took hours or days to complete?) never to be heard from again?

These idiots think the doctor is a person with "feelings" it's in their character to give more credence to Kim as a human being than either one of them has earned or deserves.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I'm watching the episode right now.

Gosh Nancy is beautiful.

EMH 2: She's still unconscious.
KES 2: I ran a microcellular scan. We're almost identical in every way.
JANEWAY 2: Almost?
EMH 2: There's a slight phase-shift in her DNA. Do you have any theory about where she came from?
JANEWAY 2: Not yet. But I intend to find out. Can you wake her?
EMH 2: I believe so.

My bad. Kim is real and every one else except the Borg colony and Naomi is fake.

(I actually like it better this way.)

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

There is no way to tell which ship is the original; therefore, they both are.

 

[Guy Gardener]

So you think that the microcellular scan is inconclusive?

That possibly it may mean that the crew who survived were only imperfect and out of phase since recently, that they were IN-identical mastermolds, from what they used to be, scarred during the duplication process when biodata (Pure Heisenberg this.) was ripped out of them to construct prefect facsimiles of what they looked-like/were "atomically" before the process began?

Harry and Namoi were too perfectly virginial to have just given birth to duplicates?

The first plan they had was to integrate the two ships and crew.

Would Naomi and Harry integrate with Corpses?

Would they be half dead or half alive?

What if Janeway didn't want a replacement Kim?

"No thank you. I'd rather have another Tuvok."

 

[SRFX]

So you think that the microcellular scan is inconclusive?

If we're going to follow Deadlock's pseudo-science (just watched it, review coming soon /plug) then the phase shift goes both ways. If the OTHER Voyager did the same scan they would've found the OTHER Voyager similarly out of phase.

Of course, it doesn't play out that way and the ending of the episode ignores it's own pseudo-science/magical determinations anyway.

 

[Guy Gardener]

If they didn't bother to check, it's altogether possible that both crews were phase shifted, but if that was true then the vidians would have attacked neither Voyager since neither vessel would have been in real space enough to pique their attention.

but they probably were not using empirical comparisons, comparing the kes' against each other in a series of trials, rather than using rotes and constants for the universe they believed to always be true and filed so in all their textbooks and data bases about how inphase with the universe they ought to be, which is silly considering both ships were trying to push their way out sideways from the universe to discover new physical laws and properties or crush into each other to form a composite (Weeks later, they could have gone back to this spot and used this bastard to pull Tuvix into two pieces hoping to have a Neelix and a Tuvok of course, and not two Tuvixs.).

However if the crew that was lost were "spoiled" somehow incompatible with everything else in their universe it is possible that they wouldn't have been so good for harvest that the vidians might have been wary about picking the crew apart, so it's likely that that crew who blew up were not noticeably phased.

then of course it could have just been kes who was effected because she went through the 'gate" which is why she and janeway wore phase discriminators, even though B'Elanna and Janeway went to great lengths to tune in the other Voyager because the whole ship was out of phase which is supposedly how they cohabitated in the same space.

The new Voyager would have been less rooted to creation as it was "diverged" form the original and would have be pushed to a barely higher spacial dimension. Unless the act of giving birth was like a fart and propelled the original Voyager into a higher plane?

OH!

THIS time, I recognized Bob Clendin under that Vidiian rubber mask the second he opened his mouth. I saw him on Cougartown just this morning.

Some people are always working.

 

[SRFX]

If they didn't bother to check, it's altogether possible that both crews were phase shifted, but if that was true then the vidians would have attacked neither Voyager since neither vessel would have been in real space enough to pique their attention.

Yes, hence:

...it doesn't play out that way and the ending of the episode ignores it's own pseudo-science/magical determinations...

 

[exodus]

There is no way to tell which ship is the original; therefore, they both are.

Exactly.

 

[Guy Gardener]

If they didn't bother to check, it's altogether possible that both crews were phase shifted, but if that was true then the vidians would have attacked neither Voyager since neither vessel would have been in real space enough to pique their attention.

Yes, hence:

...it doesn't play out that way and the ending of the episode ignores it's own pseudo-science/magical determinations...

You remember Sam?

Just had a Baby?

The Doctor delivered it.

Baby and mother.

Medical care.

If their DNA was fucked up, the Doctor would have noticed when he was counting Naomi's fingers and toes.

Everybody who belonged on that ship had (relatively)normal DNA.

 

[Lynx]

Well, I would have loved to see Kim meeting his parents after Voyager had returned to Earth and see him starting to do his own impersonation of the old Joan Jett/Runaway's classic "Cherry Bomb":

Well, hello Mum, hello Dad, i'm your d-d-d-d-duplicate son!

 

[Guy Gardener]

Oh I'm conceding that he is real and everyone else is fake Lynx.

Which means that that childishness I was talking about later, how it was more important he phoned home than the rest of the crew, that his feelings were more important, might be warranted since no one else had ever actually met all the people they wanted to talk to.

Everyone one else was just jerking around.

However doesn't that mean that Kim saved the wrong crew in Timeless?