Did Kelpians being a "prey species" come from an ad lib?

[eschaton]

On another forum I'm on, someone claimed that it's been "semi-confirmed" that Doug Jones basically made up Kelpians being a prey species. The whole little monologue about food webs in the first episode (which always seemed a bit goofy to me) was essentially made up by him extemporaneously, and Bryan Fuller decided to work it into the show.

This would help resolve something strange regarding the last few episodes - why Lorca, who came from the Mirror Universe, was okay with having what he would consider a food animal as his XO. When the two characters were originally conceived, Lorca wasn't intended to be from the MU, and Saru wasn't intended to be a prey species. Potentially the showrunners came up with the idea of Kelpian being a popular food item in the MU even later in the process.

 

[Dijeirusan]

I think Lorca was intended to be from the MU from the get-go, seeing as the actor appears to only have a 1-season contract and it was pitched to him as such from Day 1, according to press this week.

Perhaps Doug Jones gave the idea of Kelpians being food, but it would have been over a year ago before anything was shot, and any scripts would have been adjusted accordingly well before filming started.

 

[Tosk]

why Lorca, who came from the Mirror Universe, was okay with having what he would consider a food animal as his XO.

Kelpians aren't only food. They also perform tasks. And I bet you could pretend to be work-mates with a hamburger if your life depended on it.

I think Lorca was intended to be from the MU from the get-go

Not quite the get-go, it came up later apparently. After Fuller left.

Harberts explained that the writers knew from the start, when creator Bryan Fuller was first planning out the show’s serialized storyline, that the inaugural season of Discovery would end up in the Mirror Universe. (Fuller eventually left the show due to creative differences with CBS, elevating Harberts and Gretchen J. Berg to showrunner status.)

But at first, the writers planned for Lorca to be a hawkish captain given a chance to shine thanks to the Federation’s war with the Klingon Empire. It was only after the writers began discussing why Lorca would be so skilled with warfare that they hit upon the idea that he’d secretly be from the militaristic world of the Mirror Universe.

http://trekcore.com/blog/2018/01/ca...trek-discovery-whats-past-is-prologue-events/

 

[Mudd]

I think if you look at the animal inspirations and details of Saru's design you'll see instantly how silly that story is.

Using it to explain away a detail about Lorca's behavior that puzzles some viewers is foolishness.

 

[Vger23]

Isaacs confirmed in a recent interview that he knew from Day 1 what Lorca's entire arc was going to be.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

And Lorca is clearly quick enough on the uptake that he would easily adapt to the prime universe version of Kelpiens and be able to serve alongside one.

That's what Lorca has done ever since he reached this universe - adapt. He could never have returned home otherwise.

 

[XCV330]

"Don't play with your food" is for lackeys. Context is for kings.

 

[Spot261]

One thing you can say about Lorca, you never saw him eat anyone....

 

[Takeru]

It doesn't make a lot of sense that Kelpians are said to have been a prey species as if that's unusual. Humans were prey too and had to be very aware of danger, that we are also predators doesn't change that.

 

[Spot261]

It doesn't make a lot of sense that Kelpians are said to have been a prey species as if that's unusual. Humans were prey too and had to be very aware of danger, that we are also predators doesn't change that.

This is true, although to be fair the dialogue made it clear the Kelpian situation is largely unique in its' binary nature.

 

[lawman]

"But at first, the writers planned for Lorca to be a hawkish captain given a chance to shine thanks to the Federation’s war with the Klingon Empire. It was only after the writers began discussing why Lorca would be so skilled with warfare that they hit upon the idea that he’d secretly be from the militaristic world of the Mirror Universe."

So, wait. Originally they'd planned to make Lorca what pretty much everyone on these boards wanted him to be (genuinely complex), and it's only after Fuller left that the new showrunners decided to turn him into a cardboard villain? Delightful... :-(

 

[Noname Given]

"Don't play with your food" is for lackeys. Context Condiments is for kings.

FTFY

 

[Mudd]

It doesn't make a lot of sense that Kelpians are said to have been a prey species as if that's unusual. Humans were prey too and had to be very aware of danger, that we are also predators doesn't change that.

It does.

 

[Takeru]

It does.

Only after humans started using tools and weapons, before that our ability to kill smaller prey didn't protect us from bigger predators. There are predatory animals today who are also prey, smaller cats for example, they will still flee and hide from larger predators and are generally cautious.

 

[Trekkin]

Only after humans started using tools and weapons, before that our ability to kill smaller prey didn't protect us from bigger predators. There are predatory animals today who are also prey, smaller cats for example, they will still flee and hide from larger predators and are generally cautious.

Kelpians aren’t described as ‘prey’ because they’re incapable of fighting off or escaping predators. We specifically see that they can.

They’re considered ‘prey’ animals, for the same reason deer are considered ‘prey’. And like a deer, they can run fast and fuck you up something good.

Kelpians are just unlucky enough to live on a planet when the only fauna are deer and mountain lions. ‘Binary’ and all.

(Note: ‘Predator’ and ‘prey’ isn’t necassarily a permanent thing. Besides environment playing a part in classifying, species themselves change. It’s been suggested that we ourselves could have been ‘mere’ scavengers at one point.)

 

[eschaton]

I think if you look at the animal inspirations and details of Saru's design you'll see instantly how silly that story is.

I'm pretty sure Saru's design came from the decision to cast Doug Jones and create an alien race which fit his lanky build.

I don't know how it worked with Discovery, but I know from reading The 50 Year Mission that the norm for Trek shows is to design the characters (name, personality, rank, etc) well before the story beats are nailed down even for the pilot.

It doesn't make a lot of sense that Kelpians are said to have been a prey species as if that's unusual. Humans were prey too and had to be very aware of danger, that we are also predators doesn't change that.

Not just prey - livestock. Lemme insert the original quote from Memory Alpha:

Your world has food chains. Mine does not. Our species map is binary; we are either predator or prey. My people were hunted, bred, farmed... we are your livestock of old. We were biologically determined for one purpose, and one purpose alone – to sense the coming of death. I sense it coming now

Note that if you were designing sentient livestock, the last thing you'd want is a "long and stringy" kelpien. This is why I tend to believe it wasn't necessarily the original plan.

 

[Spot261]

I'm pretty sure Saru's design came from the decision to cast Doug Jones and create an alien race which fit his lanky build.

I'm not going to dispute your word on this, you might be right, but it seems a roundabout way of doing things. Cast an actor for an undefined role, then create a whole alien species to insert into the universe based around his build?

I'm not saying that isn't what happened but if it is it was an inspired form of hamfistedness

 

[eschaton]

I'm not going to dispute your word on this, you might be right, but it seems a roundabout way of doing things. Cast an actor for an undefined role, then create a whole alien species to insert into the universe based around his build?

I'm not saying that isn't what happened but if it is it was an inspired form of hamfistedness

Again, from Memory Alpha...

The portrayal of the Kelpiens was originated by a collaboration between the writing staff of Star Trek: Discovery and Saru actor Doug Jones. [1] The opportunity to develop a new species was extremely exciting for Jones. He was glad he didn't have to play an already established species, because doing so would have had some pressure that, if he didn't get the portrayal right, Star Trek's fan base would have hated him. By contrast, he said, "This is like, 'Well, no one is going to know if I'm getting it right or wrong because, it's starting right here!'" [2] On the other hand, he did feel that the responsibility of establishing the Kelpiens was somewhat "daunting," because he wanted to do so in a way that was "right" and could be "emulated in later incarnations down the road through someone else."

 

[Spot261]

Again, from Memory Alpha...

Thanks for that, the process seems to have worked anyway, Saru has become in many ways my favourite discovery character.

 

[Campe]

On another forum I'm on, someone claimed that it's been "semi-confirmed" that Doug Jones basically made up Kelpians being a prey species. The whole little monologue about food webs in the first episode (which always seemed a bit goofy to me) was essentially made up by him extemporaneously, and Bryan Fuller decided to work it into the show.

Wasn't Fuller gone by the time casting begun?