Did Jennifer Lein and Jeri Ryan ever met each other?
- Thread starter Kristine
- Start date
Seven did ask Kes a question in 'Fury': State your intentions'... but Kes never responded.
So, no, we do not have canonical evidence which shows us Kes and Seven interacting with each other as characters.
Other than that, I'm sure the actresses HAVE been communicating with each other in preparation for their scenes in 'The Gift' and 'Fury'... at least scenes that feature the both of them.
Good excuse for a re-watch
They had several scenes together.... The sickbay scene in The Gift (I think), and where Seven confronted her in Engineering in Fury.
You'll regret it.
The worst ever episodes in Star Trek, especially that one from season six which is the worst TV episode ever.
If you are a fan of Kes, Seven or both, there are much better and interesting episodes to watch.
I like every Voyager episode better than those two.
My top 20 Voyager favorite episode list looks like this:
1. Cold Fire
2. Persistence Of Vision
3. Caretaker
4. Warlord
5. Basics (parts 1 and 2)
6. Projections
7. The Swarm
8. Darkling
9. Futures's End (parts 1 and 2)
10. Jetrel
11. Time And Again
12. Alliances
13. Meld
14. Tuvix
15. The Thaw
16. Investigations
17. Ex Post Facto
18. Fair Trade
19. Nemesis
20. Before And After
I don't think the Gift is a bad episode when considered just as a story on its own. The only thing I have against it, really, that it's the vehicle with which Kes was removed from the series.
I do strongly dislike/ 'hate' Fury though, for multiple reasons (using apostrophs because I think the word hate is tossed around far too casually). Though not quite as intense as some other poster on this board...
I do strongly dislike/ 'hate' Fury though, for multiple reasons (using apostrophs because I think the word hate is tossed around far too casually). Though not quite as intense as some other poster on this board...
Last edited:
It baffles me who Fury is even written FOR. It’s an active insult to Kes’s character, so if you liked her, you’re disappointed, and those who didn’t like her wouldn’t have wanted her back in the first place. So I just can’t figure out why that episode was made like that, when... just about anything else would have been preferred by everyone.
My personal thoughts about it is that the episode was made to show a finger at the Kes fans who wanted her back.
^ I can't (technically speaking) be sure of that, but it does seem they went out of their way to offend Kes fans, in the sense that there was some meagre consolation in that they at least gave her a somewhat gracious sendoff in 'the Gift' - and then took it so shamelessly away.
It can't have been the plot, for it's quite weak ('oh, now I remember! I don't hate you, I love you! No hard feelings, right?'). It can't have been the (cheesy) special effects. It can't have been the narrative structure.
In fact I see no redeeming features whatsoever. Steaming pile of sh*t.
Oh, perhaps one, at the very end, this little exchange:
KES: See anyone you know?
NEELIX: Only you.
That, at least, felt genuine.
It can't have been the plot, for it's quite weak ('oh, now I remember! I don't hate you, I love you! No hard feelings, right?'). It can't have been the (cheesy) special effects. It can't have been the narrative structure.
In fact I see no redeeming features whatsoever. Steaming pile of sh*t.
Oh, perhaps one, at the very end, this little exchange:
KES: See anyone you know?
NEELIX: Only you.
That, at least, felt genuine.
I think all the writers saw Kes differently. Kenneth Biller, for instance, took a real interest in the short lifespan, giving us 'Elogium' and 'Before and After' (though 'Elogium' was a poor introduction to the concept). On the other hand, Berman and Braga (particularly Braga) were lovers of horror, particularly, it seems, '70s horror films with titles like 'Suspiria' and 'The Fury'! Such people would always be on the lookout for potential threats within the story. And Kes's mental powers were such a potential threat, with Braga showing such potential for horror as far back as 'Cold Fire' (which I have never liked). So, with his love for horror, Braga felt that the best way to portray Kes's mental powers would be to make her a villain.
Bryan Fuller (another horror fan) has nevertheless said that the final episodes didn't work, particularly after they turned it into a time travel story (Rick Berman has taken responsibility for that aspect, and also admitted that he overused time travel during the series). According to Fuller, the original draft was a 'present day' story which, even with the dark outcome for Kes, would have made more sense and not interfered with the legacy of the first season so much. Potentially, this idea might have brought more interaction between Kes and the 'present day' crew, including Seven.
As for actual interaction between the actors, I believe it was in Memory Alpha's article on 'The Gift' that Jeri Ryan expressed frustration that she got very little time with Jennifer Lien, even off-camera, though she said that Lien was very kind.
Bryan Fuller (another horror fan) has nevertheless said that the final episodes didn't work, particularly after they turned it into a time travel story (Rick Berman has taken responsibility for that aspect, and also admitted that he overused time travel during the series). According to Fuller, the original draft was a 'present day' story which, even with the dark outcome for Kes, would have made more sense and not interfered with the legacy of the first season so much. Potentially, this idea might have brought more interaction between Kes and the 'present day' crew, including Seven.
As for actual interaction between the actors, I believe it was in Memory Alpha's article on 'The Gift' that Jeri Ryan expressed frustration that she got very little time with Jennifer Lien, even off-camera, though she said that Lien was very kind.
Last edited:
In this case, I rather go with Berman's and Braga's original ideas.
The short lifespan was a dead end. Although I have all respect for Kenneth Biller as a writer, Elogium was plain boring and rather pointless, not to mention the whole concept with the "one child syndrom" and all that hullaballoo with Ocampa procreation. Before And After was downright confusing and over the top, even if the episode gave us interesting flashbacks to Kes's life before Voyager and gave Jennifer Lien the oppotrtunity to shine. But storywise, none of those stories led anywhere.
Berman and Braga had better ideas but they overdid it. Kes's mental powers were an interesting subject and episodes like Persistence Of Vision and Cold Fire were brilliant. (I can't believe it! I'm actually writing positive comments about Berman and Braga!
When was the last time I did that? 
)But making Kes a villain was downright idiocy, destructive and insulting to the fans of the character.
They should have kept the character and let her have limited mental powers, just like she showed up in Persistence Of Vision and partly in Cold Fire but nothing more.
What they really should have focused on was Kes's personality, her ways to solve problems, her curiosity, wit, determination and will to explore the universe. There they lost a great opportunity to make something wonderful out of the character.
In recent years, after finally solving all problems with stupid TV channels and lousy DVD discs and finally got everything in order, I've watched a lot of Deep Space Nine and really enjoyed the great storytelling and character development of that series. I must admit that watching that series brought back my interest of Star trek, an interest which had been fading ever since the end season of Voyager and the failure of Enterprise.
That have made me wonder a lot about what would have happened if Voyager had had the DS9 writers or if Kes in some way had been sent to Deep Space Nine after leaving Voyager. I' think that the writers of Deep Space Nine could have developed the character in a much better way than what happened in Voyager.
Last edited:
Well, I think that is a poor use of the character, to take it in the horror direction. I cannot stand when writers can't think of anything different so they just explore powers as a danger and a threat, rather than a gift. "Before and After" is one of my favorite Kes stories, despite the stupid time travel nature, because it explores the character of Kes in a unique way, that she views the world that much more differently than those around her. In the same way that she makes the argument around the Doctor as being more than just a tool, Kes provided that opportunity to explore the world differently. Telekinesis and mental powers are old hat to Trek. Kes' shorter life span could have been helpful, and at the end of it (if necessary) you break the rules, just like Dr. Who did.
So, while I don't find "Fury" as offensive as a Kes fan (at least over Seven of Nine, I do think the character fell in to the age old storytelling trap of "we don't know what to do. I know...let's make her dangerous!"
Personally I think that they just showed the "finger" to those fans who wanted Kes back.
And even if it wasn't, it was still a lousy and totally unnecessary episode.
