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Designers Respond To Fan Reactions

T'Aerwynd

Lieutenant Commander
Red Shirt
Original article was here.

This was copied and pasted from TrekMovie.Com. Anything that's not in QUOTE tags was taken from TrekMovie.Com ... the Quoted parts are from Sternbach and Church.

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The new USS Enterprise released yesterday has spawned dozens if not hundreds of articles across the globe in the mainstream press and the geekosphere. Reaction here at TrekMovie has been running at one comment every 49 seconds for 24 hours straight. In that deluge are a few notables, including former Star Trek designer Rick Sternbach and the designer of the new ship, Ryan Church.

Sternbach and Church on the new E
Rick Sternbach was a senior illustrator and designer for the Trek franchise going all the way back to star Trek The Motion Picture, working mostly on the TV series in the TNG era (Next Gen, DS9 and Voyager). He designed dozens of Trek ships and stations, including Deep Space Nine, the Klingon Vor’cha battle cruise, the USS Voyager, and the USS Enterprise C.
I get the distinct impression that to do the nacelles and secondary hull, someone stared at the USS Pasteur for a while. Just a thought. But even the Pasteur’s Bussard collectors had line of sight to open space, which the nacelles on this new ship don’t seem to have. Perhaps the designers didn’t know exactly how the different hardware bits worked (I violated this rule a little here and there, but I knew when I was doing it). Now I’m not being a whiner, just an informed critic. There’s room in this Trek world for healthy design criticism, as well as simply sitting back and enjoying a well made SF film. I -hope- the film is well written and clever and has good proportions of action, humor, tech, etc. but I’m also prepared to analyze the design work to see, perhaps, how far the shapes and colors and functions stray from 40 years of evolved gear.
This and the many other comments got the notice of the designer of the new Enterprise, Ryan Church, who has worked on the Star Wars prequels, the Transformers movies and the new James Cameron film Avatar. Church wrote in the TrekMovie comments:
I’m not going to get involved in the mud slinging, here, but needed to assure you guys and gals: we’ve built you a fine ship. To clarify: there’s a slight optical illusion occurring here, consequence of the “camera” angle. For Rick and others who worry the nacelles don’t have a clear line of sight over the disc — they, in fact, do. We were hardly working in a vacuum. I raided ILM reference photos like a madman. We were deferential to “inviolates” of Star Trek design vocabulary. Additionally, the profile here isn’t 100% representative, because, as you’ve noticed, the Bussards are dimmed. The true profile of the nacelles may or may not be revealed here, and that’s all I’ll say.
Sternbach replied back, noting that he has since had a chance to see a new angle of the Enterprise (lucky Rick!)
I went back and checked the Bussard clearance, and yeah, it works. I’ve seen a port side ortho[graphic] elevation, and I don’t have a problem with the mechanics of it, it’s the proportions and flows of the basic parts that look odd to me. Granted, no ship ever looks perfect in every ortho view, nor in every perspective view. We who have done this stuff in our sleep know that most vehicle and prop designs have their “best” faces. I’m not going to bore people with excerpts from my classical art and architecture books, though I will probably thumb through them here just to see if I can glean anything relevant. Like I said, I’ll wait to see how the film looks as a whole effort.
Which all just goes to show you that even the pros can take different views and even modify their views, especially when given more information. So far we have only two views of the new Enterprise and we have yet to see it in motion, that is worth considering.
 
Appreciate the post! I think we are all have one long weekend of waiting to see this version in action (for those of us not going to see QoS). . .
 
It's really cool to see truly professional and constructive criticism. Sternbach clearly doesn't love what he sees, but at the same time he's more than willing to give it a chance. Good for him! I also appreciate getting the perspective of a designer who worked on Trek for years. This also really makes me eager to see the Enterprise from different perspectives now!
 
I'm impressed that these guys who keep showing up to post. They read the conserns & BS we throw around and add their 2¢. Good to see they have a bit of interest in what the fans have to say.
 
I'm impressed that these guys who keep showing up to post. They read the conserns & BS we throw around and add their 2¢. Good to see they have a bit of interest in what the fans have to say.

Agreed, agreed. The guy didn't have to enter the fray, but did so to defend his design, good for him.:techman:
 
I'm impressed that these guys who keep showing up to post. They read the conserns & BS we throw around and add their 2¢. Good to see they have a bit of interest in what the fans have to say.

Agreed, agreed. The guy didn't have to enter the fray, but did so to defend his design, good for him.:techman:

Yeah, it was nice of him to comment, but I do not think what he said is going to make an ounce of difference. The majority of criticisms and proposed solutions are centered around the fact that the J.J.-prise does not look exactly like the TOS/TMP era Ent., and that to correct it, most if not all changes should be rectified to bring it inline with that preconceived notion of what the Ent. looks like. I've also found that many hardcore Trek fans seem to be hell bent on having primary hull strut connect at the front most part of the secondary hull, while the Deflector Dish must look like a 23rd Century gold plated spinner, and that the Nacelles must be glowing red.
 
According to his website, Ryan Church also worked on Dead Space. Who knew? Maybe that's why I like his Enterprise so much. Dead Space has a wonderful design aesthetic.
 
I'm impressed that these guys who keep showing up to post. They read the conserns & BS we throw around and add their 2¢. Good to see they have a bit of interest in what the fans have to say.

Agreed, agreed. The guy didn't have to enter the fray, but did so to defend his design, good for him.:techman:

I've also found that many hardcore Trek fans seem to be hell bent on having primary hull strut connect at the front most part of the secondary hull, while the Deflector Dish must look like a 23rd Century gold plated spinner, and that the Nacelles must be glowing red.

Why is that such a bad thing for a ship that's supposed to be the same one Kirk and Spock served on?
 
Agreed, agreed. The guy didn't have to enter the fray, but did so to defend his design, good for him.:techman:

I've also found that many hardcore Trek fans seem to be hell bent on having primary hull strut connect at the front most part of the secondary hull, while the Deflector Dish must look like a 23rd Century gold plated spinner, and that the Nacelles must be glowing red.

Why is that such a bad thing for a ship that's supposed to be the same one Kirk and Spock served on?

Because it's unrealistic for modern sensibilities, fan or not.
 
Agreed, agreed. The guy didn't have to enter the fray, but did so to defend his design, good for him.:techman:

I've also found that many hardcore Trek fans seem to be hell bent on having primary hull strut connect at the front most part of the secondary hull, while the Deflector Dish must look like a 23rd Century gold plated spinner, and that the Nacelles must be glowing red.

Why is that such a bad thing for a ship that's supposed to be the same one Kirk and Spock served on?

There is nothing wrong with having the ship look like that, its that attitude of the fans that dictate it MUST look like that! Instead of providing any criticisms regarding the new direction the movie has taken, fans just demand any changes be removed or reduced to make it look almost identical the TOS one.
 
I would not want to be Church right now. You know how much hate mail that guy is probably getting right now? ...Christ.

Anybody who doesn't like the design need not blame Ryan, but rather Abrams, the man who signs off on everything.
 
I've also found that many hardcore Trek fans seem to be hell bent on having primary hull strut connect at the front most part of the secondary hull, while the Deflector Dish must look like a 23rd Century gold plated spinner, and that the Nacelles must be glowing red.

Why is that such a bad thing for a ship that's supposed to be the same one Kirk and Spock served on?

Because it's unrealistic for modern sensibilities, fan or not.

Oh rubbish. Those are vaguely general qualities that can serve any era, from steampunk to the far future. They define structural qualities that are functional, as opposed to replacing elements with "wicked-cool glowing patches" and stuff.

I've also found that many hardcore Trek fans seem to be hell bent on having primary hull strut connect at the front most part of the secondary hull, while the Deflector Dish must look like a 23rd Century gold plated spinner, and that the Nacelles must be glowing red.

Why is that such a bad thing for a ship that's supposed to be the same one Kirk and Spock served on?

There is nothing wrong with having the ship look like that, its that attitude of the fans that dictate it MUST look like that! Instead of providing any criticisms regarding the new direction the movie has taken, fans just demand any changes be removed or reduced to make it look almost identical the TOS one.

Well, you're generalizing a bit too much. I'm not the only one who's criticized the new Enterprise on the grounds of self-conflicting design ethos. And several have pointed out that they don't like the new nacelles because they look "yawning" or "uncircumcised". "Droopy" comes up a lot. These certainly don't sound like the concerns of drooling fanboyz, but rather people who post legitimate criticisms of the new design.
 
Why is that such a bad thing for a ship that's supposed to be the same one Kirk and Spock served on?

Because it's unrealistic for modern sensibilities, fan or not.

Oh rubbish. Those are vaguely general qualities that can serve any era, from steampunk to the far future. They define structural qualities that are functional, as opposed to replacing elements with "wicked-cool glowing patches" and stuff.

Why is that such a bad thing for a ship that's supposed to be the same one Kirk and Spock served on?

There is nothing wrong with having the ship look like that, its that attitude of the fans that dictate it MUST look like that! Instead of providing any criticisms regarding the new direction the movie has taken, fans just demand any changes be removed or reduced to make it look almost identical the TOS one.

Well, you're generalizing a bit too much. I'm not the only one who's criticized the new Enterprise on the grounds of self-conflicting design ethos. And several have pointed out that they don't like the new nacelles because they look "yawning" or "uncircumcised". "Droopy" comes up a lot. These certainly don't sound like the concerns of drooling fanboyz, but rather people who post legitimate criticisms of the new design.

Yeah, well I guess that is fair game, but looking at the photoshops seems to indicate a certain group of people want a more "traditional" design, and by that I mean that it looks very close to the TOS Enterprise. I really still have not heard one effective criticism of the new ship yet, which is partially what agrivates me, because it makes it look like some people are complaining just because this new ship does not meet their preconceived notion of how a Constitution class ship should look.
 
^Agreed. Most will not be happy unless we go back to 1960 and have only old-time hardcore fanboys in the seats. Of course, this would also mean Star Trek is dead. So why don't the ones claiming Trek is dead... just pretend it is and let those of us who want to enjoy the new movie... do so.
 
Yeah, well I guess that is fair game, but looking at the photoshops seems to indicate a certain group of people want a more "traditional" design, and by that I mean that it looks very close to the TOS Enterprise.

Well there's something extremely unexpected.

I really still have not heard one effective criticism of the new ship yet, which is partially what agrivates me, because it makes it look like some people are complaining just because this new ship does not meet their preconceived notion of how a Constitution class ship should look.
Effective criticism? What is that, exactly? There are plenty of valid criticisms about the new design which have little to do with making the ship more traditional. Differing tastes are not something you should be frustrated by if you hang out here. What are you hoping for, a concensus? Obviously, it will be the new design elements that will be picked through by the more design orientated fans.
 
To call a criticism "valid" or "legitimate" is not the same as to pronounce it the truth and something that must be agreed to.

I've found very little of the "valid criticism" in this case to align with my own responses or taste.
 
According to his website, Ryan Church also worked on Dead Space. Who knew? Maybe that's why I like his Enterprise so much. Dead Space has a wonderful design aesthetic.

Now that IS killer news. Now I really can't wait to see this stuff. Love the new ENT btw!
 
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