Delta Quadrant Species and Their Hats

[Weyoun 251]

I just feel like Pierre-Simon Laplace felt about God: "I have no need of that hypothesis." I don't think there's anything that it's needed to explain; it's just an ad hoc conjecture out of nowhere. And I resist the tendency to assume that every single thing that happens in the Delta Quadrant has to be about the Borg. They were overused enough in the show itself.

I mean, both your points could apply just as well to the Federation, which was reachable by transwarp and whose members and neighbors were definitely aware of the threat the Borg posed. But a ton of stuff happened in TNG and DS9 that had nothing whatsoever to do with the Borg.

First I do need to give respect where it is due on the reference to PSL - not what I was expecting and fair play.

Second - of course it is! The OP made comment on wondering why Voy had such a high number of "one and done" races, I put forth my theory on how it could be impacted by the Borg - precisely because of how much the Borg were used and from season 4 seemed to be a constant threat and presence.

Third - the way it is presented is such that in the Delta Quadrant they are almost unchallenged whereas every time they come up against the Federation after Q Who they get their arses handed to them so stop wasting resources on it.

Its lovely that we have differing views - that is what the board is for; but also knowing when views are entrenched or constructed on fundamentally different points of view is key and I think we are just going to go in circles if we carry on down this path

 

[Nerys Myk]

More like "Space Mongols" crossed with Communist China. Basically the Yellow Peril trope transposed to sci-fi.

I think it's pretty clear the Klingons were the Soviets. Rivals to the Federation much as the Soviets were the rivals to the West. China was more closed off in the Sixties and a bit "mysterious." More like the Romulans.

 

[Christopher]

I think it's pretty clear the Klingons were the Soviets. Rivals to the Federation much as the Soviets were the rivals to the West. China was more closed off in the Sixties and a bit "mysterious." More like the Romulans.

Gene L. Coon's script for "Errand of Mercy" explicitly described the Klingons as "Oriental, hard-faced," which is why James Blish said in his adaptation that they were "originally of Oriental stock." We know from interviews with John Colicos that he and Fred Phillips improvised Kor's makeup based on Genghis Khan. Yes, later episodes changed the makeup and went for more of a Cold War vibe in general, but it is a documented fact that the Klingons were originally conceived as "Oriental," one of the many alien races in the era's sci-fi that were modeled on commonplace Orientalist or Yellow Peril tropes.

Anyway, China was seen as much as a Cold War rival in those days as the Soviets were. Americans assumed that both nations were part of a single unified bloc, unaware how much they actually saw each other as bitter rivals for control of the global Communist revolution. There's as much Cold War fiction in the era where China was the villain as where the Soviets were.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Gene L. Coon's script for "Errand of Mercy" explicitly described the Klingons as "Oriental, hard-faced," which is why James Blish said in his adaptation that they were "originally of Oriental stock." We know from interviews with John Colicos that he and Fred Phillips improvised Kor's makeup based on Genghis Khan. Yes, later episodes changed the makeup and went for more of a Cold War vibe in general, but it is a documented fact that the Klingons were originally conceived as "Oriental," one of the many alien races in the era's sci-fi that were modeled on commonplace Orientalist or Yellow Peril tropes.

Anyway, China was seen as much as a Cold War rival in those days as the Soviets were. Americans assumed that both nations were part of a single unified bloc, unaware how much they actually saw each other as bitter rivals for control of the global Communist revolution. There's as much Cold War fiction in the era where China was the villain as where the Soviets were.

Describing the appearance of the Klingons as “Oriental” doesn’t preclude them being a Soviet stand in. Russians were often coded as “Asian” in fiction being in the mysterious East an all. Parts of Eastern Europe have Asian influences culturally due to close contact through war, conquest and trade.

I was born 1959 and have read a lot of fiction and history from and about the Sixties in addition to living through them. So I’m not exactly ignorant on the topic. To my mind, the blustery type of performances by Colicos and Campbell would have been right at home on Mission Impossible in one of those fictional East European countries.

 

[Christopher]

Describing the appearance of the Klingons as “Oriental” doesn’t preclude them being a Soviet stand in.

I never said it did. I'm just saying that their later portrayal as a Soviet stand-in does not erase the documented fact that they were initially conceived as "Oriental." Obviously the portrayal of the Klingons has changed over time, has been subject to multiple influences by multiple creators. So pointing out that one influence exists does not mean denying the others. It's just making sure the entire truth is known.

I was born 1959 and have read a lot of fiction and history from and about the Sixties in addition to living through them. So I’m not exactly ignorant on the topic. To my mind, the blustery type of performances by Colicos and Campbell would have been right at home on Mission Impossible in one of those fictional East European countries.

As I said, Colicos himself told Starlog that he and Fred Phillips devised the makeup based on Genghis Khan and Asiatic-villain tropes. But when season 2 came along, Phillips didn't remember the basically improvised Klingon makeup from "Errand," which is why the Klingons in "Friday's Child" and "The Trouble with Tribbles" have no "alien" makeup to speak of. So what applied to Colicos did not apply to Campbell. (Although I see his performance as Koloth not as an Eastern European officer as much as a mannered British colonial officer -- "My dear Captain Kirk" and whatnot.)

Again, there is no reason to approach this as some kind of argument between mutually exclusive viewpoints. We're talking about a collaborative work which obviously had multiple influences.