defiants cloak

[judge alba]

got a question regarding the defiant from DS9.
why did the federation borrow a cloak from the Romulans and not the Klingons?.

Thought it was strange that they would go to a sort of hostile power rather then to their allies.

and what happened to them needing a Romulan observer with them?. i'm sure in one of the episodes they had to have a Romulan on board to keep an eye on it, though i could be wrong about that.

 

[Judy Waxhorn]

The No Cloaks treaty was with the Romulans not the Klingons.

In order to honor said treaty with the Romulans (because that is the POINT of a treaty, you HONOR it...) they had to ask permission to use a cloak... and the Romulans sent along an observer.

Also it was more than likely decided at that point that they would need the Romulans to assist IF things turned into a shooting war.. Planning ahead you see.

They figured lets share intel and play nice with our neighbors, if things start to suck we can ask for help.

We all know how things played out though... and what direction events went in.

One assumes that the Federation later installed a Federation cloaking device... we all know the Feds have the ability to make a really sophisticated cloak system -- they chose not to deploy it because of the treaty.

 

[-Brett-]

Could be that Klingon cloaking tech is inferior in some way to the Romulan version. The Romulans were the original developers, after all, and the Klingon Empire never seemed like it was full of great innovators.

 

[cwl]

Starfleet chose to use a Romulan cloaking device because as it has been said- the Federation has the no cloaking device treaty with the Romulans. So in order to use the cloak they needed permission from Romulus and naturally the Romulans wanted someone to supervise the use of the cloak.

Starfleet can produce their own cloaks, we've seen in en episode of TNG I believe and in the film Insurrection. Starfleet did however break their treaty by doing so and produced those cloaks in secret.

Starfleet did get a hold of a klingon bird of prey in the 22nd century (HMS Bounty) so Starfleet may have gathered a lot of knowledge on cloaks from that or their information could go back further.

what is interesting is that even in the Dominion War when the Alpha quadrant was fighting for its survival that Romulus never allowed starfleet widespread use of cloaks even though we know starfleet had the ability to produce cloaks and could have used them to great effect in the war.

 

[Deckerd]

[generic post about apostrophes]

 

[Sandoval]

[generic post about apostrophes]

[Equally generic post about brackets]

 

[Deckerd]

[generic post about apostrophes]

[Equally generic post about brackets]

{but they are cloaks, are they not?}

 

[ChristopherPike]

Nothing to say that the Romulans invented cloaks first. Then again everybody makes a fuss about Zefram Cochrane, while non-humans just shrugged their shoulders and went "Eh. It's been done before!"

Starfleet did get a hold of a klingon bird of prey in the 22nd century (HMS Bounty) so Starfleet may have gathered a lot of knowledge on cloaks from that or their information could go back further.

23rd. Let's just not get into the number of stealth devices kicking around the mid 22nd shall we?

 

[Sandoval]

[generic post about apostrophes]

[Equally generic post about brackets]

{but they are cloaks, are they not?}

(No, cloaks are cloaks, brackets are brackets)

 

[Timo]

More specific musings about apostrophes: with the Romulan treaty compatibility issue out of the way, would the rest of the Defiants have been provided with Klingon invisibility devices, making the thread title a true statement after all? A slowish ship type that has point blank range weapons only would certainly benefit from being invisible till the last possible moment...

Could be that Klingon cloaking tech is inferior in some way to the Romulan version.

Then again, the Klingons managed to infiltrate the Romulan home system in a cloaked vessel in "Unification", while we never learn of the Romulans returning the favor.

ENT would suggest that neither Romulans nor Klingons originally invented invisibility tech, as Xyrillians had it first. But that's more or less irrelevant as it would appear incredible that thousands of other cultures wouldn't have invented that tech first, and that at least a few dozen such cultures wouldn't remain alive and a-kicking in the general vicinity of Earth, Romulus and Qo'noS. What ENT tells us is that Klingons had an explicit opportunity to obtain the tech from the Xyrillians, which might give them quite a lead vs. poor Romulans who perhaps had to develop it from scratch.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Gotham Central]

The funny thing about this question is that the Federation unquestionably developed a more sophisticated cloaking system that could have proven useful during the Dominion War. Imagine how useful that phase cloak would have been. Even id the Dominion could see the ship, all of their weapons would simply go through it.

 

[erastus25]

The funny thing about this question is that the Federation unquestionably developed a more sophisticated cloaking system that could have proven useful during the Dominion War. Imagine how useful that phase cloak would have been. Even id the Dominion could see the ship, all of their weapons would simply go through it.

I don't think I follow? Did I miss some technobabble about putting ships "out of phase"?

 

[Bread]

This whole cloak thing whereby the Feds don't have one is just silly.

They have an intelligence service that presumably comes and goes as it pleases regardless of borders and treaties, so the issue of a cloak when everyone else has one is not really a believable proposition.

 

[Sandoval]

I don't think I follow? Did I miss some technobabble about putting ships "out of phase"?

Yes. You missed an episode of Star Trek The Next Generation.

 

[erastus25]

I don't think I follow? Did I miss some technobabble about putting ships "out of phase"?

Yes. You missed an episode of Star Trek The Next Generation.

And Enterprise.

Thanks for the reminder...I was thinking all DS9 and forgot about the other series.

 

[Sandoval]

Thanks for the reminder...I was thinking all DS9 and forgot about the other series.

Tut tut...

 

[antiquityscion]

This whole cloak thing whereby the Feds don't have one is just silly.

They have an intelligence service that presumably comes and goes as it pleases regardless of borders and treaties, so the issue of a cloak when everyone else has one is not really a believable proposition.

Yeah, it leaves the Feds at a huge tactical disadvantage: it's like having a navy full of battle ships and destroyers, but no sonar-absorbing submarines, when everyone else has them and can sneak up and sink your battleships and destroyers at will.

 

[Timo]

Well, as long as the Romulans agree to pretend to believe that the UFP does not operate, build or develop cloaks, the no-cloaking treaty works just fine. It helps Romulans save face ("Yeah, we won the Romulan War, verily we did!"), and as long as nobody sees an invisible Starfleet spyship...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Sandoval]

The Federation agreed to not develop cloaking technology to prevent further hostilities with the Romulan Empire. They saw that as a better option than continuing down the path towards war with (at the time) their most powerful adversary.

Seems simple enough to me.

 

[antiquityscion]

The Federation agreed to not develop cloaking technology to prevent further hostilities with the Romulan Empire. They saw that as a better option than continuing down the path towards war with (at the time) their most powerful adversary.

Seems simple enough to me.

Of course it is simple to understand the WHY. I wasn't questioning that.

I was just observing that it was a huge tactical disadvantage.