Decon blue porn. You know you want it
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I found that stuff soooo embarrassing the first time I watched it but now I just sit there and nod and smile 
I found that stuff soooo embarrassing the first time I watched it but now I just sit there and nod and smile
I actually laughed out loud the first time I saw it, aaaand hated it more and more as it went on. But, thought it would be an entertaining thread.
I'm hardly a prude or skittish about nudity being used in an artistic way to convey a story. Nudity has been a major aspect of art throughout the ages, and it continues to be so. In fact, nudity is a normal aspect of living, and so it can desensitize us by being on so frequently. Trying to censor nudity can be illogical or it can a sign of being sexually repressed.
However with that being said, nudity actually harms Star Trek in the manner depicted above. It's gratitous nudity simply to please baser instincts and not intended to further a story. The application of decontamination gel in this manner makes no medical sense, and it doesn't add to the story, and it doesn't do much of anything except titilate the viewer.
Why do it? Wasn't the vision to create a future where sexism is decreased, where gender roles change enough that physical comeliness is not a prerequisite to acting on the show?
There's a scence in the much bandyed film "Soldier" (with Kurt Russell). a bunch of cloned human soldiers are coming along to replace the current soldiers who were born by ordinary means but hand-picked after birth. One of the officers when looking over them remarks, "Well...they're pretty....". Sure they're perfect specimens, all Adonises, but can any of them do the work?
I understand why acting on television strives to get the most beautiful or handsome people on the screen. It's done so the viewers live vicariously and then think, "If only I could be like them...." and then Madison Avenue pushes a new skin cream, exercise equipment, all manner of food items, with the idea that you'll look like the person pushing the product. That's garbage honestly.
To put this in a Star Trek universe is worse, because while youthful professional people can all be beautiful due to their exhuberance, passion, liveliness, and inexperience...they also come in all different shapes and sizes.
Because women are held to an even worse standard, I'm surprised at some of what I think are female responses, because feminists fought so hard against those very ideas. One can be comely without it having anything whatsoever to do with their abilities.
Nudity and frank sexuality is certainly a part of budding friendship in relationships leading to romance. We would expect for all kinds of sexual akwardness and flirting to occur in encountering alien species and in understanding their cultural practices. But doing this in decontamination is just wrong on many levels.
Because nudity was most abused to female actors, I really think it's wrong within a Star Trek unless it's specifically done for romantic reasons.
Heck, it's not even limited to nudity. Can you see the male actors of Star Trek walking around in skin tight costumes, attention to detail like deep cleavage (shall we pick actors with big packages?), and multiple costume changes because of it? We'd all think it absurd.
The female astronauts of the US must be cringing. Instead of the extraordinary effort to be the best in fitness as well as professionally, they must also look good nude.
However with that being said, nudity actually harms Star Trek in the manner depicted above. It's gratitous nudity simply to please baser instincts and not intended to further a story. The application of decontamination gel in this manner makes no medical sense, and it doesn't add to the story, and it doesn't do much of anything except titilate the viewer.
Why do it? Wasn't the vision to create a future where sexism is decreased, where gender roles change enough that physical comeliness is not a prerequisite to acting on the show?
There's a scence in the much bandyed film "Soldier" (with Kurt Russell). a bunch of cloned human soldiers are coming along to replace the current soldiers who were born by ordinary means but hand-picked after birth. One of the officers when looking over them remarks, "Well...they're pretty....". Sure they're perfect specimens, all Adonises, but can any of them do the work?
I understand why acting on television strives to get the most beautiful or handsome people on the screen. It's done so the viewers live vicariously and then think, "If only I could be like them...." and then Madison Avenue pushes a new skin cream, exercise equipment, all manner of food items, with the idea that you'll look like the person pushing the product. That's garbage honestly.
To put this in a Star Trek universe is worse, because while youthful professional people can all be beautiful due to their exhuberance, passion, liveliness, and inexperience...they also come in all different shapes and sizes.
Because women are held to an even worse standard, I'm surprised at some of what I think are female responses, because feminists fought so hard against those very ideas. One can be comely without it having anything whatsoever to do with their abilities.
Nudity and frank sexuality is certainly a part of budding friendship in relationships leading to romance. We would expect for all kinds of sexual akwardness and flirting to occur in encountering alien species and in understanding their cultural practices. But doing this in decontamination is just wrong on many levels.
Because nudity was most abused to female actors, I really think it's wrong within a Star Trek unless it's specifically done for romantic reasons.
Heck, it's not even limited to nudity. Can you see the male actors of Star Trek walking around in skin tight costumes, attention to detail like deep cleavage (shall we pick actors with big packages?), and multiple costume changes because of it? We'd all think it absurd.
The female astronauts of the US must be cringing. Instead of the extraordinary effort to be the best in fitness as well as professionally, they must also look good nude.
It isn't total garbage. There is nothing wrong with seeing someone with a healthy, beautiful body and wanting to be like that, nor is there anything wrong with enjoying looking at beautiful bodies - naked or otherwise - for entertainment purposes. The only real place that I see a problem coming into it is that there aren't enough body types represented. A healthy but short-and-squat framed man or woman (or any of several other healthy builds that can be found in the human populace) can be just as pleasing to the eye as the one or two builds that seem to be the only ideals of beauty that Hollywood usually deals in, and living vicariously through them would allow the setting of healthier and more realistic goals for viewers of those same general builds.
As far as the marketing goes, well, I think modern marketing, rather than straight-forward presentations of products based on their merits and actual attributes, is one of the four or five main scourges of this planet. Seriously. But, since I don't recall Enterprise crewpeople using particular brands of lotion or other product placement like that - in fact, I don't recall seeing any product placement in Trek at all until Star Trek '09 with the Budweisers and the Nokia device in the car young Kirk was in - I'm not sure that is a very valid complaint about the decon scenes.
There's probably almost nil product placement within the Star Trek franchise. I'm talking about the reality of television being used to sell products. Therefore creating situations where nubile figures prance around rubbing gel on others, cutting to commercial, back to the television episode, rinse repeat.
I can honestly remember as a young child being impressed that Uhura was an officer aboard a starship and African-American. There was practically nothing like this in reality. Sulu, a Japanese person being a navigator? It was unbelievable and so appealing to a partially Asian child looking for rolemodels. A Romulan female commander! That was awesome. But it wasn't all like that, with terrible episodes like Gamesters of Triskelon and trying to guess who Kirk was going to bang that week.
Appealing to the lowest possible denominator isn't a good thing. Intentionally making nudity an expectation since decon is going to happen every away mission is ABSURD. Seeing people tastefully flirt and make out is absolutely normal.
Can you recall the episode in TNG when a wiggling alien thrusts itself under the sheets of Deanna Troi to impregnate her? I was embarassed as a father to see that happen on primetime tv and in front of my wide eyed children too. Holy cow.
I can honestly remember as a young child being impressed that Uhura was an officer aboard a starship and African-American. There was practically nothing like this in reality. Sulu, a Japanese person being a navigator? It was unbelievable and so appealing to a partially Asian child looking for rolemodels. A Romulan female commander! That was awesome. But it wasn't all like that, with terrible episodes like Gamesters of Triskelon and trying to guess who Kirk was going to bang that week.
Appealing to the lowest possible denominator isn't a good thing. Intentionally making nudity an expectation since decon is going to happen every away mission is ABSURD. Seeing people tastefully flirt and make out is absolutely normal.
Can you recall the episode in TNG when a wiggling alien thrusts itself under the sheets of Deanna Troi to impregnate her? I was embarassed as a father to see that happen on primetime tv and in front of my wide eyed children too. Holy cow.
Troi was impregnated by a ball of light, I don't recall any thrusting or wiggling.
Whatever the appeance of the alien, it's shown wriggling under the sheet towards her vagina. It's rape, and by no means the only time rape happens to this character S05E12. It's also among the worst excesses on Star Trek.
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X70duygWpbs[/yt]
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHVI4UHSm1U[/yt]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHVI4UHSm1U
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X70duygWpbs[/yt]
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHVI4UHSm1U[/yt]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHVI4UHSm1U
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Why are these instincts "baser"?
YES!
Really, I would like to see tons of people in the decon chamber, not just the conventionally hot ones. Stick Phlox in there, his scaley pudginess is adorable. It's not having scenes with non-story furthering nudity that bothers me it's that a lot of fanboys would have a cow if you stuck a woman in there who was older or fatter. Lwaxana, Pulaski..
It's not a brave new world to get rid of the decon type scenes, it's a brave new world to include everyone in them.
And the answer to that is not to desex Star Trek (already one of the least sexy shows out there) but to show sexuality as being a broad spectrum and not just about Hollywood bodies.
As has been said many times on this board, it's very odd that they underwear is protection, and therefore the characters rub gel around but not under it. It all comes off, ladies and gents!
But with that said, I really hope I can look as good as Reed when I get to his age. And... has Travis ever been in decon on screen?
But with that said, I really hope I can look as good as Reed when I get to his age. And... has Travis ever been in decon on screen?
Great. The next Star Trek will be like Game of Thrones.
By definition, base here is related to:
"a. Having or showing a contemptible, mean-spirited, or selfish lack of human decency. See Synonyms at mean2.b. Devoid of high values or ethics: a base, degrading way of life.
c. Inferior in value or quality."
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/base
Sad really. What a setback for feminism...and humanity in general.
I'm more interested in the actor's ability and craft and not in their package size or breast size. The former are important attributes to convey a story. The later has nothing to do with the story, merely exploit them and degrade us if the situation is gratuitous and not within the context of intimacy.
With those kinds of gratuitous nudity, then I guess the producers will decide only big breasted sexy women need apply.
By definition, base here is related to:
"a. Having or showing a contemptible, mean-spirited, or selfish lack of human decency. See Synonyms at mean2.b. Devoid of high values or ethics: a base, degrading way of life.
c. Inferior in value or quality."
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/base
Sad really. What a setback for feminism...and humanity in general.
I'm more interested in the actor's ability and craft and not in their package size or breast size. The former are important attributes to convey a story. The later has nothing to do with the story, merely exploit them and degrade us if the situation is gratuitous and not within the context of intimacy.
With those kinds of gratuitous nudity, then I guess the producers will decide only big breasted sexy women need apply.
Robbiesan you have missed the point of my post. Humans are sexual beings. The sexist element is not having sexual scenes it's having sexual scenes where only certain shapes of people are included. Getting rid of sexism doesn't mean getting rid of sex, or sexiness for its own sake.
Right. It's also not having scenes of Archer merely commanding only T'Pol and/or Sato into the chamber. There's a way to celebrate the human body without resorting to oppressive gender roles, simultaneously without shaming sex or body as well.
Now, was it handled in the smoothest or most aware way on Enterprise? Certainly not. But respecting the human body is itself not sexist. If it's done in a way that depowers women though, then there'd be a problem.
Then Teacake you likewise haven't read my original post. I have no issue with nudity per se. It's when it doesn't do anything that is relatable to the story.
There's no need to get rid of sex at all. Sex is normal and expected and so scenes in which there is romance and intimacy are going to have sexual elements to them.
What's not normal is creating an expectation for the actors to please us by disrobing during routine situations so we can have porn. That's bad all around and I'm rather surprised that hardcord Star Trek fans would want this. It's disrespectful of the actors in general.
I don't need them to do that. It's not related to Trek in any way. I'd rather they discuss science and be good rolemodels to encourage people to study science.
In the history of Trek, there were so many firsts which resulted in a generation of young people desiring to push the boundaries of occupations outside their parent's expectations. It also made many of us more accepting of people's personal choices and encouraging women to seek diverse roles. Good gosh, at the time women were largely expected to be nurses or teachers, and nothing else.
Prior to 1966, women in acting were merely ornaments in most productions. It was pretty pathetic. To me, the decon scenes are a return to that paradigm of ornamentation. I'd rather see T'pol struggling slowly to control her emotions post-Tellarium D exposure, experimenting with letting a little of her emotions show in a very measured way, and then losing control due to drug abuse of that Tellarium D.
If you watch all of the episodes in order, then you see a very fine young actress performing about very serious social matters and showing control in her ability with very nuanced but spare emotion and gestures. This is remarkable.
What isn't remarkable is making her be a sex symbol just to please the fans. That's awful, I think to do to a young person. She doesn't have to do that to earn my respect.
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I can enjoy looking at sexy stuff without it having anything at all to do with the story. I don't agree that this is somehow base or pulls down Star Trek. I like looking at people as sexual beings with their clothes on too, taking them off doesn't magically make the show lowbrow. The idea that gratuitous sexual scenes degrades a show is a notion I'd like to see revamped. Let's do those scenes with more creativity, leave out the sexist dynamics exampled by Cyke101, add other dynamics that further character personalities when possible.
PUT EVERYONE IN THE DECON CHAMBER.
Brave new Sexy. You can do it Star Trek!!
PUT EVERYONE IN THE DECON CHAMBER.
Brave new Sexy. You can do it Star Trek!!
That sounds more like porn and prostitution and less like acting and Star Trek. One wonders if nursing, being a chemist, being an engineer, being a banker, should be this way based upon the desire of co-workers to see people naked.
This is not impressing me much as a new member of the community. It's not much like the fans of the series I've known over 40 years either.
This is not impressing me much as a new member of the community. It's not much like the fans of the series I've known over 40 years either.
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