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DC Cinematic Universe ( The James Gunn era)

not-this-shit-again.jpg



Here ya go. Again.



You're welcome.

Thank you. The Incredible Hulk was not a bomb, but certain people are determined to push that long debunked narrative all in order to salvage the disaster that is Gunn's 2nd film in his underwhelming DCU.


Again - its a pretty simply question - in our fantasty world where there are no marketing costs and they keep 100% of tickets - what's the breakeven point ?

Ignoring--or not being aware of marketing costs--is the expected position of those who--to this day--are clawing and Frankenstein-ing any pile of nonexistent "...butwhatabouts" to make Supergirl even a modest "hit". Nope, that is not happening with total global earnings--even including the U.S. holiday weekend--has limped, tripped and collapsed with $100,500,000.

Anyway, if launched in France this week, it's last big market and died immediately.

No surprise at all.

With Spider-Man unquestionably sailing past a billion and Avengers likely to do so if it doesn't totally f' things up, what happens to Gunn if "Man of Tomorrow" comes in at the same 600M range again?

Warners' aren't paying him vast sums of money to make films that just squeak into profit.

True but the worst of Gunn-DCU defenders have spent the past week+ changing positions / moving goal posts to tell everyone that meager earnings as seen with Supergirl are a good thing.
 
With Spider-Man unquestionably sailing past a billion and Avengers likely to do so if it doesn't totally f' things up, what happens to Gunn if "Man of Tomorrow" comes in at the same 600M range again?

Warners' aren't paying him vast sums of money to make films that just squeak into profit.
If Man of Tomorrow underperforms that will be the end of the line. IMO that will be Gunns last chance. At least with any movie costing hundreds of millions of dollars.

Spiderman will likely hit big, and so will Avengers, but I think even Marvel is going to be shortening these releases.
 
I've been wondering, how are the streaming series doing compared to the movies? I'm starting to wonder if Man of Tomorrow isn't the kind of hit they need, if they might be better off giving up on movies and only doing streaming series from now on.
While I still enjoy the movies and will gladly continue to go see them, I'm starting to find that I prefer streaming or TV series for superhero adaptations. You can just go so much deeper into the characters and the universe with an ongoing series than you can with one movie every few years.
 
I'm starting to wonder if Man of Tomorrow isn't the kind of hit they need, if they might be better off giving up on movies and only doing streaming series from now on.
It cannot happen for a few reasons - one of which is the IP - to admit that most of the DC IP beyond Batman and (maybe) Superman isn't actually that valuable would be a problem. It will be easier just to say that Gunn got it wrong.
 
Oh, I didn't realize it would make that much of a difference if they were in movies or TV/streaming series. I figured as long as they appeared on screen in some form that would be enough to make everyone happy.
 
Supergirl bombed hard. Who has said otherwise or said it was a good thing?
The defenders' spin job about the film's earnings against its production budget (while conveniently never mentioning the marketing budget adding to a growing mountain to climb is one example. Aside from that, there's the stretching speculation (making excuses) that other franchises had underperforming or flops as second entries, yet it had no bearing on the franchise continuing.
 
The defenders' spin job about the film's earnings against its production budget (while conveniently never mentioning the marketing budget adding to a growing mountain to climb is one example. Aside from that, there's the stretching speculation (making excuses) that other franchises had underperforming or flops as second entries, yet it had no bearing on the franchise continuing.
Yes some of the conversations here have been great works of fantasy.
 
But no one on the board has said that Supergirl bombing is "good thing" for the Gunn DC filmverse. Nor has anyone here denied that the film has bombed. I was responding to the text, as written.

True but the worst of Gunn-DCU defenders have spent the past week+ changing positions / moving goal posts to tell everyone that meager earnings as seen with Supergirl are a good thing.

I'm not a fortune teller, so I've stayed out of the debate about the future of the Gunn film-verse as a function of the performance of Supergirl. However, it seems at least that Man of Tomorrow will be happening.

edit - And of course Clayface is coming. Is Clayface in continuity with Superman, Supergirl, and Peacemaker S2? I have no idea.
 
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Trek BBS response July 2026



Been super busy…so scanning some of the messages, but no type to sit and type bt a couple of thoughts:



Part of Supergirl’s lack of enthusiasm I think had to do with her introduction.



In the Previous DC Film Universe, Wonder Woman was introduced in Dawn of Justice, and my theater roared in enthusiasm when her theme song played. So her movie was most definitely set up with an audience ready to see her. And once it came out in theaters, certainly people who were fans of the show would be pleased…. While definitely a MODERN rendition of WW, she still had a feel of the innocence and virtue of the TV show character…much like how CBS Flash fans embraced the CW version, I think that momentum also helped Wonder Woman. As for her “looks” in the ads…. To me, she is portrayed as a warrior, and in line with a general perception of Wonder Woman as a fighting super hero. And as Trek has mentioned before, her movie definitely did NOT feel “woke” in the sense that it was able to empower women without putting down men…they definitely shown men with “weaknesses’ like PTSD, but it felt more “realistic”, and did NOT feel like the Left version of a Christian evangelistic movie.



Aquaman I think also hugely benefited from his introduction in Justice League. Many of growing up watching Superfriends thought of him as a joke. But in Justice League, he was a badass, and so it definitely intrigued people to see it.



But with Supergirl…with her intro…. I mean, she would most certainly be distinct from Superman, and maybe a fun SIDE character. But would I be waiting to see a movie about that character? MMM…. Not really. It felt original and fun for Hancock….but for a Supergirl that seems out of alignment with the character as portrayed previously…. Not really excited for it.



Also, it seems like we’re blowing up one SPECIFIC comment about Mill Alcock not looking “pretty”…. The “support” of this more centers around how 2026 Supergirl seems more “negative” for a “superfamily” member…. To me, it’s a similar sentiment of Henry Cavill’s Superman…. That he seemed t some people to be a dour version of Superman …while people didn’t mention him not being handsome, definite Snyder’s color tones, and how they sabotaged the set up of the Kents (making them seem like good parents who made sense to guide him into a superhero) , to being all negative within a few years of his life. It would have been fine for Batman, but not Superman, and that’s how the DC Film Universe got sabotaged form the beginning, and never really recovered.



Regarding @TREK_GOD_1 's comment about Covid 19 being an excuse…. I just see it as a permanent effect , where streaming became the go to. Some people might be fearful for disease like Covid, but just the yearlong shift into focusing on watching new things on streaming became a norm that truly affected watching habits, and prioritizing wanting to go out and spend time and money on a movie.



And with the economy…. Why pay more for a movie, when it will just show up on the streaming service (you are already paying for) in a few months?



Our family goes to movies an average of about once every 2 months…. So we budget what we should see right away, vs. something we can just wait on.



As for Supergirl sinking the DC Omni Universe…. I think it will definitely be a factor….one point that will need maybe 2 others to solidify the direction.



James Gunn, I think got to do “his” stuff with the raunchy/violent Creature Commandos and Peacemaker, so I think he’d be OK if he got fired….but he will have some time before the make a final decision..

Clayface seems like it could be a standalone horror movie….my youngest daughter is way more interested in CLayface than Supergirl. If THAT does well, it can keep the DC OU going, with some tweaks…. Batman 2 also might be something as well that they would consider merging into the DC OU…



I know Christopher argues that you can have multiple at the same time….but it also splits the audience, and there’s no automatic shift from one from to another.



Like with sports teams….there’s a limit to how much expansion you can do before its oversaturation. But A cinematic universe can drive people to the next thing…IF they can keep enough interested people.



I remember when Thor came out…I thought it looked silly and passed on it. But then I saw it on Redbox (remember that?), and loved it, and it got me excited about Avengers and Thor 2.

And even though Thor 2 wasn’t great, they came out with an amazing trailer for Ragnarok that got me hyped for it, as did the Black Panther trailer (it was an amazing year for trailers!)

As has been said…. It’s totally possible to make something that is self-contained for a casual member, but also be extra exciting for hardcore fans who can find the easter eggs.



And for Supergirl making money --- I honestly don’t see how it helps the host company financially all that much. So WB makes the content, but then shows it on HBO Max, their own platform.

This is different from if they license it out to another service (like Netflix).



And on-demand? Yeah, a FEW people might want to pay the higher prices for the convenience…but nowhere near the demand of when VHS was the quickest option or even DVD’s (which I am sure got even lower profit when Redbox rented it out for a dollar or so a day).





Let’s see what happens with Clayface to see where things go next. It can tilt it more on Gunn’s favor… or be another nail. Man of Tomorrow might be the big financial investment that will determine where they really go (or not go).
 
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Trek BBS response July 2026



Been super busy…so scanning some of the messages, but no type to sit and type bt a couple of thoughts:



Part of Supergirl’s lack of enthusiasm I think had to do with her introduction.



In the Previous DC Film Universe, Wonder Woman was introduced in Dawn of Justice, and my theater roared in enthusiasm when her theme song played. So her movie was most definitely set up with an audience ready to see her. And once it came out in theaters, certainly people who were fans of the show would be pleased…. While definitely a MODERN rendition of WW, she still had a feel of the innocence and virtue of the TV show character…much like how CBS Flash fans embraced the CW version, I think that momentum also helped Wonder Woman. As for her “looks” in the ads…. To me, she is portrayed as a warrior, and in line with a general perception of Wonder Woman as a fighting super hero. And as Trek has mentioned before, her movie definitely did NOT feel “woke” in the sense that it was able to empower women without putting down men…they definitely shown men with “weaknesses’ like PTSD, but it felt more “realistic”, and did NOT feel like the Left version of a Christian evangelistic movie.



Aquaman I think also hugely benefitted from his introduction in Justice League. Many of growing up watching Superfriends thought of him as a joke. But in Justice League, he was a badass, and so it definitely intrigued people to see it.



But with Supergirl…with her intro…. I mean, she would most certainly be distinct from Superman, and maybe a fun SIDE character. But would I be waiting to see a movie about that character? MMM…. Not really. It felt original and fun for Hancock….but for a Supergirl that seems out of alignment with the character as portrayed previously…. Not really excited for it.



Also, it seems like we’re blowing up one SPECIFIC comment about Mill Alcock not looking “pretty”…. The “support” of this more centers around how 2026 Supergirl seems more “negative” for a “superfamily” member…. To me, it’s a similar sentiment of Henry Cavill’s Superman…. That he seemed t some people to be a dour version of Superman …while people didn’t mention him not being handsome, definite Snyder’s color tones, and how they sabotaged the set up of the Kents (making them seem like good parents who made sense to guide him into a superhero) , to being all negative within a few years of his life. It would have been fine for Batman, but not Superman, and that’s how the DC Film Universe got sabotaged form the beginning, and never really recovered.



Regarding Trek comment about Covid 19 being an excuse…. I just see it as a permanent effect , where streaming became the go to. Some people might be fearful for disease like Covid, but

just the yearlong shift into focusing on watching new things on streaming became a norm.



And with the economy…. Why pay more for a movie, when it will just show up on the streaming service (you are already paying for) in a few months?



Our family goes to movies an average of about once every 2 months…. So we budget what we should see right away, vs. something we can just wait on.



As for Supergirl sinking the DC Omni Universe…. I think it will definitely be a factor….one point that will need maybe 2 others to solidify the direction.



James Gunn, I think got to do “his” stuff with the raunchy/violent Creature Commandos and Peacemaker, so I think he’d be OK if he got fired….but he will have some time before the make a final decision..

Clayface seems like it could be a standalone horror movie….my youngest daughter is way more interested in CLayface than Supergirl. If THAT does well, it can keep the DC OU going, with some tweaks…. Batman 2 also might be something as well that they would consider merging into the DC OU…



I know Christpher argues that you can have multiple at the same time….but it also splits the audience, and there’s no automatic shift from one form to another.



Like with sports teams….there’s a limit to how much expansion you can do before its oversaturation. But A cinematic universe can drive people to the next thing…IF they can keep enough interested people.



I remember when Thor came out…I thought it looked silly and passed on it. But then I saw it on Redbox (remember that?), and loved it, and it got me excited about Avengers and Thor 2.

And even though Thor 2 wasn’t great, they came out with an amazing trailer for Ragnarok that got me hyped for it, as did the Black Panther trailer (it was an amazing year for trailers!)

As has been said…. It’s totally possible to make something that is self-contained for a casual member, but also be extra exciting for hardcore fans who can find the easter eggs.



And for Supergirl making money --- I honestly don’t see how it helps the host company financially all that much. So WB makes the content, but then shows it on HBO Max, their own platform.

This is different from if they license it out to another service (like Netflix).



And on-demand? Yeah, a FEW people might want to pay the higher prices for the convenience…but nowhere near the demand of when VHS was the quickest option or even DVD’s (which I am sure got even lower profit when Redbox rented it out for a dollar or so a day).





Let’s see what happens with Clayface to see where things go next. It can tilt it more on Gunn’s favor… or be another nail. Man of Tomorrow might be the big financial investment that will determine where they really go (or not go).
A few of us mentioned that weak introduction earlier. The contrast with Wonder Woman's setup in Batman v Superman is like night and day. If Wonder Woman had just popped in for a few seconds to say "Thanks for the exercise bitches," I highly doubt her succeeding movie would have had the anticipation that it did.

I do think the next Superman movie will perform better. We will be further away from the stench of the OLD DCEU and the last Superman movie was well liked.
 
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Yeah not the hyper fixation on the failure and celebrating the failure is crazy to me.
Well, @theenglish kinda is...making legit points about studios inflating costs (especially if they plan on writing it off for tax purposes), but also for me seems off on the possibility that Supergirl will recoup its actual costs, even with post-theater opporunties. I sure don't plan on paying extra money to rent it.

As for the "glee" of studio failure.... look, i totally get it. I felt that way about Sony, when they did the Andrew Garfield movies. I felt like they were mainly doing it to keep the IP in play, and sabotaged the relationship with Sam Raimi and TObey Maguire for no good reason. I only saw Amazing SPiderman 2 because my daughter's 4th grade class went to see it for an end of the year field trip. i definitely did NOT want Sony to succeed after that.

My mentality with Tom Holland is that Marvel was taking over creativity repsonsibilities, and by that time, TObey Maguire would have retired anyway, and felt like a more natural reboot. (No Way Home totally redeemed ANdrew Garfield, poor guy, and the character for me).

While not quite as passionate about it, i definitley don't like David Zaslav and his money grubbing ways. I felt like the DC Film Universe was turning a positive corner, when Zaslav decided to reboot it and falsely blaming Henry Cavill for the problem (i.e. being the literal face of a self-sabotaged venture).

I am also not at all enthralled with Gunn's overuse of raunchy & violent material. I grew up in the era where DC seemed more "family friendly" and Marvel COmics had the more "serious stuff", so that would be a reason why I am not super excited the DC OU, but i don't think DC could take another re-set, and they totally wasted the Crisis event (And Marvel is essentially doing it through Secret Wars)....so I just hope stuff gets better.


Oh, and i guess while i am on the line here... for me, what I had seen so far of Lanterns just strikes me as "cheap"...Green Lantern should be cosmic, and i for one that the first 1/2 of Ryan Reynolds movie showed just that. I t just sabotaged itself with a vague cloud for a villain. The Lanterns show so far feels like the first 1/2 of the Flash GOrdon series on the early 2000's.....which was actually a lot better the 2nd half, but after everyone dropped out.
 
I'm not saying that they will be anywhere near each other in quality, but I really have as much interest in a Clayface movie as I did in a Morbius movie.

That makes sense, but at the same time in all honesty a Morbius movie really did make sense, too, business wise. The problem wasn't the character, it was the movie. We'll see if Gunn's Clayface does it the right way rather than the Morbius way.
 
Just out of curiosity....

All of those that say this movie sucks because it bombed at the BO, have you actually seen it? Be honest.
I mean, I haven't because I don't have a lot of money and I am more invested in the new Spiderman movie. But, if you're saying this movie is the nail in the coffin of the new DCU BUT haven't actually seen it..... STFU and GTFH.

If you have seen it AND feel it sucks, all good. No worries. But I can't stand seeing internet dumbfucks screaming something is bad while they haven't even seen it. It's called being an idiot.
 
Just out of curiosity....

All of those that say this movie sucks because it bombed at the BO, have you actually seen it? Be honest.
I mean, I haven't because I don't have a lot of money and I am more invested in the new Spiderman movie. But, if you're saying this movie is the nail in the coffin of the new DCU BUT haven't actually seen it..... STFU and GTFH.

If you have seen it AND feel it sucks, all good. No worries. But I can't stand seeing internet dumbfucks screaming something is bad while they haven't even seen it. It's called being an idiot.
I for one am saying it doesn't seem like it's worth my money to spend on, nor time to go out to the theater. It could turn out like my thoughts on Thor.... didn't feel like it was worth watching in theater, but when i get a cheap and convenient way to see it, I probably will.

The thing is...it isn't just me or a couple of random people on the internet - it's the moviegoing public.

Sure, box office isn't necessarily a exact indicator on quality.....but it's a decent guage...and it's certainly the indicator for executives to keep on making movies from that genre/moviemaker/etc. So the box office might not be the driver for you to see it or not... but it WILL affect future films.

Are the voices praising the film in any way overwhelming the negative voices? Or a lot of radio silence?

it's not the final nail in the coffin of the DC OU, but it's certainly an indicator. Like i said, if Clayface does really well, this will be like the Incredible Hulk...a blip on the way. And Man of TOmorrow would be a bigger indicator
 
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