"Dark Page"

[TroiFan4ever]

For me, there's a love-hate relationship with this episode. More on the love side because when I was around 3 or 4, this, and "Phantasms", were the first episodes I remember watching and thus, began my everlasting love for Star Trek: The Next Generation, and I definitely remember the famous "Troi cake" scenes in Ten Forward from "Phantasms". But I loved the dark corridor scenes in "Dark Page" and how great Troi looked in her uniform. Don't ask me why, but on top of the dark corridor scenes, what also fascinated me the most was the part when Troi is seen jumping off into space when she hears Lwaxana's voice in the distance crying out, "Help me!"

As a child, I remember so badly wanting to see this episode again just to see the dark corridor scenes and Troi jumping off into space, but now as an adult, watching the episode for the story, I can't. Well, I can watch most of the episode but when H&I reruns this episode, I always skip the scene in the dark arboretum when Troi and Lwaxana discuss the tragedy that had happened with Kestra. The reason being is that a few years or so ago when I watched this episode on H&I in its entirety, including the dark arboretum scene had me in tears.

You know what's interesting? So apparently, it was explained that Kestra had died by drowning after she'd chased her dog into the pond trying to retrieve it. Earlier in the episode when Troi is showing the Carin around the arboretum, a girl playing around the pond Hedril accidentally falls into the pond (though she quickly recovers). Was this intentional as part of the story? Lwaxana did collapse shortly thereafter though it was presumably after sending Maquis the telepathic message telling him what Heaven was even though Beverly told Lwaxana to stop communicating telepathically.

This and "Skin of Evil" were two of the saddest episodes of TNG.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I give this episode a lot of props for daring to treat this kind of tragedy. I rank it among the best of S7. I also think that Majel did a superb job, she's acting at the top of her game here.

Earlier in the episode when Troi is showing the Carin around the arboretum, a girl playing around the pond Hedril accidentally falls into the pond (though she quickly recovers). Was this intentional as part of the story?

Hedril was played by a young Kirsten Dunst, no less. She was a guest star, it was scripted, so it was absolutely intentional.

 

[Tosk]

Was this intentional as part of the story?

Yes. That's exactly why Lwaxana drops.

 

[TroiFan4ever]

Hedril was played by a young Kirsten Dunst, no less. She was a guest star, it was scripted, so it was absolutely intentional.

I think you misunderstood what I was getting at... and that's actually my mistake for not clarifying it fully because I was afraid of making my OP too long. But what I meant was, in my opinion Hedril falling into the pond was eerily similar to the way Kestra had died. That said, I thought Hedril's fall was to allude to how Kestra died and I was wondering if this was the writers' intent. Secondly, Lwaxana fell unconscious after communicating telepathically with Maquis. All these years later, I'm now realizing there's also the possibility she could've fell into the coma after seeing Hedril's fall and must've been triggered given that's how Kestra died. It's up to how the audience interprets it, I guess.

Also, I really liked the character Maquis. It's too bad he wasn't seen in other episodes because I would've liked to have seen what the show would've done with him in other episode as a recurring character rather than just a one-episode guest star.

 

[Tosk]

All these years later, I'm now realizing there's also the possibility she could've fell into the coma after seeing Hedril's fall and must've been triggered given that's how Kestra died. It's up to how the audience interprets it, I guess.

Hedril reminds Lwaxana of Kestra. Hedril falls into the water, just as Kestra did. Lwaxana immediately loses consciousness. I'd argue it's fairly straight-forward.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

What @Tosk said. It's very clear that the intent was to remind Lwaxana of what happened to Kestra.

 

[Ron M]

This was one of the few episodes that helped humanize--Betazoidanize?--Lwaxana for me, making her into more than just the goofy (and, honestly, often unlikeable) comic relief of her first few appearances.

 

[Oddish]

That and "The Forsaken", with her turbolift scene with Odo.

 

[Mojochi]

I have a love hate relationship with it too. On the one hand it's a really well done episode, with a well played cast, that further fleshes out, & maybe even finalizes what could be considered her otherwise one-note character, in ways it desperately needed.

There'd been a few other toe-dips in that pool, like Half A Life, but this was sort of the epitaph. It might be the crown jewel of Majel's entire work with Star Trek, and the finale of the fully peeled onion that is Lwaxana Troi.

On the other hand... it's a hard watch. Up to that point, that kind of grim story is almost nonexistent in Star Trek. It's kind of the antithesis of why many viewers watch the show (which again is another reason to praise its boldness)

That said, I don't watch it much. It's just tough to sit thru when you're wanting some Star Trek. Sad reality, but there it is.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I have a love hate relationship with it too. On the one hand it's a really well done episode, with a well played cast, that further fleshes out, & maybe even finalizes what could be considered her otherwise one-note character, in ways it desperately needed.

There'd been a few other toe-dips in that pool, like Half A Life, but this was sort of the epitaph. It might be the crown jewel of Majel's entire work with Star Trek, and the finale of the fully peeled onion that is Lwaxana Troi.

On the other hand... it's a hard watch. Up to that point, that kind of grim story is almost nonexistent in Star Trek. It's kind of the antithesis of why many viewers watch the show (which again is another reason to praise its boldness)

That said, I don't watch it much. It's just tough to sit thru when you're wanting some Star Trek. Sad reality, but there it is.

I agree 100%.

 

[Oddish]

By contrast, I have a hate-hate-double hate-LOATHE entirely relationship with "Half a Life". The Nazi Holocaust began with the elimination of the defective and obsolete and expanded from there. Any episode that treats such a hateful crime against humanity with any sympathy whatsoever, I have no regard for.

If I was in a room with "Half a Life", "Threshold", and "Sub Rosa" and a Delete Episode From Existence gun with two shots in it...

Spoiler

I'd shoot "Half a Life" and "Threshold", because I don't waste ammo.

 

[Summer Solstice]

"Half a Life" is my favourite Lwaxana episode because I think it's so important to talk about how sometimes old people do get written off and ethics relating to euthanasia. What happens in that episode is at the extreme end of euthanasia, but it's still important to talk about. (Not suggesting actually debating euthanasia here, just that it's a very complicated topic.) My grandma had very poor quality of life towards the end of her life, but her life still mattered to her and I wouldn't want to live in a world that would have tried to pressure her into killing herself.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

The way metaphors work, they're sometimes exaggerated to make a point. See, for example, Bele and Lokai in "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield."

The interpretation of "Half a Life" doesn't have to be limited to literal euthanasia. It can also be a criticism of warehousing the old, shunning them, and just generally believing that they have nothing to offer the young anymore.

 

[TroiFan4ever]

My favorite Lwaxana episode would probably have to be "Cost of Living"... that's a TNG episode anyway. Only because I liked seeing Lwaxana taking Alexander under her wing and their relationship. I just found it a bit entertaining how Lwaxana encouraged Alexander to engage in certain carefree behaviors and activities that Worf and Troi wouldn't exactly otherwise approve of. But then again, Lwaxana was like that throughout the show -- she wouldn't maliciously break the rules but was more nonchalant when it comes to the rules and regulations of certain settings.

I like "Dark Page" but admittedly that's only for the dark corridor scenes and how beautifully lit (or I guess, unlit) they were. As for the subject matter of the episode's plot, this episode is otherwise a no for me. Lwaxana is usually a rather entertaining character in her other episode appearances but in "Dark Page", and for it being her final TNG episode no less, it was the only episode where she really wasn't.

By contrast, I have a hate-hate-double hate-LOATHE entirely relationship with "Half a Life". The Nazi Holocaust began with the elimination of the defective and obsolete and expanded from there. Any episode that treats such a hateful crime against humanity with any sympathy whatsoever, I have no regard for.

If I was in a room with "Half a Life", "Threshold", and "Sub Rosa" and a Delete Episode From Existence gun with two shots in it...

Spoiler

I'd shoot "Half a Life" and "Threshold", because I don't waste ammo.

Spoiler

To be honest, I'm surprised you wouldn't shoot "Sub Rosa". I respect your personal taste and I personally don't hate this particular episode (though I don't love it either) but from what I've seen over the years a significant portion of the Star Trek fandom seems to really hate this episode or are revolted by it.

 

[Oddish]

It's not really a true spoiler, just a rejection of a common trope. And yes, if I had a third shot in my hypothetical D.E.F.E. gun, I'd plug all three. If I had a full clip, I can think of more worthy targets.

 

[Mojochi]

The Nazi Holocaust began with the elimination of the defective and obsolete and expanded from there.

And fortunately the scenerio in Half A Life isn't meant to be anything remotely relevant to that at all. These are people who choose self-termination for themselves as a cultural norm.... for many ages, without this slippery slope dynamic you are attributing to it.

It's a fantasy tale meant to convey metaphor & allegory. You're free to hate it for whatever perception it gives you, but that by no means implies it's the correct interpretation

As for Cost of Living, I never liked it because Lwaxana is just butting her nose into someone else's parenting. Even if it's poor parenting, & she has a point that's valid, it's still rude

Lwaxana is more often than not, & in more Star Trek cultures than not, a rude person. She rude... Except in Dark Page. There we get a glimpse of the peeled onion, that highlights the underpinnings of her personality, and... it worked wonders for her imho.

& just like that, I'm back on topic lol

 

[Oddish]

You're free to hate it for whatever perception it gives you, but that by no means implies it's the correct interpretation.

Totally Ok with your right to your opinion. I actually think "Shades of Gray" is better than its reputation suggests.

Regarding "Dark Page", Lwaxana erases seven years of her life from existence, but what about everyone else she knew and had dealings with in that time. Did she sever all ties with anyone who would have acknowledged that Kestra existed?

 

[Mojochi]

Regarding "Dark Page", Lwaxana erases seven years of her life from existence, but what about everyone else she knew and had dealings with in that time. Did she sever all ties with anyone who would have acknowledged that Kestra existed?

That's an interesting thread to pull at, because as the years went on I began noticing how Lwaxana's attitudes, while supposedly devil-may-care on the surface, almost looked as if she deliberately drove people away by being rude, & brash, and as a result doesn't she seem like she's all alone now? Even the husbands she was courting weren't serious. She's draped herself in a libertine facade, but in truth, maybe she's a very isolated person now, sticking to whatever ambassadorial functions she can pass off as a life

I tend to think Deanna leaving for Starfleet was the last tie. Dead husband, dead daughter, & somewhat estranged daughter, and she went from being a woman with a loving family, to being kind of abandoned, & hiding her loss & pain behind the antics of being a wild spitfire

We've even talked about how she misrepresents Picard's thoughts as being naughty, as a joke, & I think she might purposely do that to get people to think her senses are inaccurate. She really doesn't seem to want anyone to know what she's truly about, & the character we know her as is mostly a front

So to answer your question, I think yes, it's very possible she cut people out, or drove them off

Well, that's one interpretation

 

[Oddish]

And a good one. It would explain why Lwaxana could just blank out so many years.

 

[Mojochi]

Dark Page rewrites how we think of the entire Lwaxana character, we know of up to then, as much or more than The Pegasus rewrites how we think of the entire Riker character we know of. In my opinion, both those episodes are really the only ones in TNG that flip a character completely on its ear. We have to completely reevaluate who we've been watching the whole time imho.

And in some ways, we get new definition on Deanna as well in this, through her relationship with Lwaxana. Until then, Deanna seeming annoyed or embarrassed or bullied by her mother paints Lwaxana in a poor light, but when you get all the backstory, Deanna is really just an overprotected daughter, kept in the dark about the reality of her family, and as a result is kind of rebelling against her perception of her mother as a libertine & loose cannon

Deanna almost seems priggish compared to her mother. She certainly disapproves of most of her behavior, & yet, never seems to realize that much of it might be a reaction to her history, a history that includes Deanna herself leaving to go away to Starfleet, when she was the last of her mother's nuclear family

Mightn't a mother become a little bitter about that, and maybe deliberately embarrass & bully her daughter, or unconsciously? Even though we're talking about telepaths here, Lwaxana being able to block things from herself could certainly block what she wanted from Deanna too... which kind of rewrites how we think about Betazoids too. They can't necessarily read everything. Some of them hold stuff back

This episode is a whole life check for Deanna. She kind of has to redefine everything her mother is and everything she became as a result. I mean she literally went into psychotherapy lol