Cutting away the fat from DS9

[Robotech Master]

trentman's thread inspired me to make my own.

I was just thinking, if you wanted to make DS9 more like B5 or BSG, there a number of episodes from every season you could trim away.

Don't get me wrong, it's still a great series. But I think if they had maybe produced 22 episodes per season rather than 26, it would have forced the writers to not waste as much time on silly or weak episodes.

The episodes I had in mind for excision are episodes that 1) did not advance any major arcs 2) did not provide any significant character development 3) and/or were just plain offensive/ badly acted or dull.


Anyway, here goes-

Q-Less
The Passenger
Move Along Home
The Storyteller
The Forsaken
----------
Melora
Rules Of Acquisition
Second Sight
Rivals
Profit And Loss
----------
Meridian
Fascination
Prophet Motive
Distant Voices
Family Business
----------
The Muse
----------
Looking For par'Mach In All The Wrong Places
Let He Who Is Without Sin
The Ascent
A Simple Investigation
Ferengi Love Songs
----------
Resurrection
The Magnificent Ferengi
Who Mourns For Morn
His Way
Profit And Lace
----------
Chrysalis
The Emperor's New Cloak
Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang

So about five episodes per season, with the exception of season 7 and season 4 (which was quite excellent). 'His Way' does advance a very important story arc, but I just didn't like the way the episode was done. Too forced. The stuff that came afterwards was good though.

What do you guys think? I don't absolutely loathe every episode in that list, but I wouldn't be upset to see them gone...

 

[Augustus]

The exclusion of these episodes would have made for a tighter arc and perhaps more tense story but...

I didn't mind several of them. Like Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang. That episode does nothing for trek but was good entertainment and fun. It should prolly be replaced with "Take me out to the holosuite...., which despite the fact I love baseball, was terrible...

And I have to admit that I love The Magnificient Ferengi, Who Mourns for Mourn and His Way....

and I am also a B5 fan, but I appreciate the differences

 

[chancellorjake]

The episodes I had in mind for excision are episodes that 1) did not advance any major arcs 2) did not provide any significant character development 3) and/or were just plain offensive/ badly acted or dull.
Anyway, here goes-

----------
Second Sight
----------
A Simple Investigation
----------
The Magnificent Ferengi
Who Mourns For Morn
----------
Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang

What do you guys think? I don't absolutely loathe every episode in that list, but I wouldn't be upset to see them gone...

I agreed with most of the episodes on your list, but the few that I left above are on my re-watchable list. The two in bold are, also, on my top Twenty-Five List of the Best Episodes of DS9.

 

[Anthony Sabre]

trentman's thread inspired me to make my own.

I was just thinking, if you wanted to make DS9 more like B5 or BSG, there a number of episodes from every season you could trim away.

Don't get me wrong, it's still a great series. But I think if they had maybe produced 22 episodes per season rather than 26, it would have forced the writers to not waste as much time on silly or weak episodes.

The episodes I had in mind for excision are episodes that 1) did not advance any major arcs 2) did not provide any significant character development 3) and/or were just plain offensive/ badly acted or dull.


Anyway, here goes-

Q-Less
The Passenger
Move Along Home
The Storyteller
The Forsaken
----------
Melora
Rules Of Acquisition
Second Sight
Rivals
Profit And Loss
----------
Meridian
Fascination
Prophet Motive
Distant Voices
Family Business
----------
The Muse
----------
Looking For par'Mach In All The Wrong Places
Let He Who Is Without Sin
The Ascent
A Simple Investigation
Ferengi Love Songs
----------
Resurrection
The Magnificent Ferengi
Who Mourns For Morn
His Way
Profit And Lace
----------
Chrysalis
The Emperor's New Cloak
Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang

So about five episodes per season, with the exception of season 7 and season 4 (which was quite excellent). 'His Way' does advance a very important story arc, but I just didn't like the way the episode was done. Too forced. The stuff that came afterwards was good though.

What do you guys think? I don't absolutely loathe every episode in that list, but I wouldn't be upset to see them gone...

Too many Ferengi episodes on the list. They would end up with little to no development. Besides The Magnificent Ferengi was one of the all time most funny episodes on DS9, right behind In the Cards.

 

[Mr. Fergy]

Robotech Master

I agree with you it would have made DS9 more tight, and less filler. Many of the episodes you listed are unnecessary, but they are not that bad, IMHO.

 

[Lateralus]

That list is horrible. You've got some excellent episodes on there.

 

[Jono]

If you were to cut out so called "filler" episodes I think you'd weaken the characters as many of the episodes that don't advance a major plot have some cracking and very interesting character moments and development.

I dare say that if the show originally was only 22 episodes long I think we'd probably loss just as many important episodes as fillers. Plus I don't think DS9 needs to be like B5 or BSG, it is fine as DS9.

 

[Trekwatcher]

I dunno-I like BSG and never really clicked with B5. Lots of these eps are clunkers ("Move Along Home" and "Meridian" top my list) but even the bad eps have some good DS9 moments. I like DS9 for being DS9 and would not want it to be BSG or B5, IMHO.

 

[Robotech Master]

That list is horrible. You've got some excellent episodes on there.

I might have to rewatch the series one of these days. I don't remember those being all that great...

I'm curious... which of those do you consider 'excellent'?

 

[Apogeal Alpha01]

I do agree that you could have pared away several episodes per season. My guess is that without hindsight, the writers would have still wanted to include some of the lighter eps just the same, ahd we would then look to pare back to 13. If only you could plan an entire season that tightly? (That isn't my impression from what I've read about the writers, and how their collaboration progressed throughout the series.)

For me, there are only a couple of real stinkers per season, after season one. Most had some entertainment value, especially The Magnificent Ferengi, Baada Bing, Take Me Out . . . (favs to this day,) Who Mourns For Morn and A Simple Investigation.

About B5, iirc, though the story arc was planned well in advance, there were stinkers every season there as well. They didn't detract from my overall impression of the series, which was very positive.

 

[Newspaper Taxi]

I would lobby to have "Who Mourns for Morn?" taken off that list. It's probably the most Morn-centric episode of the show. It's also kind of a fun little mystery because Quark gets thrown into the fire without actually starting it this time. And then where Morn hid his valuables...I'd lobby to save that episode.

 

[ninetofive]

The episodes I had in mind for excision are episodes that 1) did not advance any major arcs 2) did not provide any significant character development 3) and/or were just plain offensive/ badly acted or dull.

I see. So you believe "His Way" did not develop Odo's character significantly? Interesting position.

 

[startrekwatcher]

I agree with your list except I really enjoyed "The Magnificent Ferengi" and would remove it and add "Sons and Daughters" and in season seven "Extreme Measures" while related to the arc it needed polishing.

 

[Navaros]

DS9 has 5 or 6 dud episodes in every single season. Theoretically it coulda been a much better show if it was 20 episodes max per season, and only the duds were cut. But I figure if it was 20 episodes per season then it still would have the same ratio of duds, and less great episodes along with less duds. Therefore in the grand scheme of things 26 episodes was still best IMO.

DS9 has wayyyyy more really bad dud episodes than are listed in the OP though; that should have been cut, and since they were actually made, should be de-canonized. And some of the episodes listed in the OP are masterpieces, like The Ascent and A Simple Investigation, and His Way.

 

[ninetofive]

DS9 has wayyyyy more really bad dud episodes than are listed in the OP though; that should have been cut, and since they were actually made, should be de-canonized. And some of the episodes listed in the OP are masterpieces, like The Ascent and A Simple Investigation, and His Way.

The commodore is wise.

 

[Robotech Master]

The episodes I had in mind for excision are episodes that 1) did not advance any major arcs 2) did not provide any significant character development 3) and/or were just plain offensive/ badly acted or dull.

I see. So you believe "His Way" did not develop Odo's character significantly? Interesting position.

I mentioned that in my OP. 'His Way' does advance a major story arc... but I felt that it was too forced and not done well at all.

Just my opinion. With all that came before, it seemed very out of character for Odo and Kira to act the way they did in that episode.

Also, it was a little odd that they spent so much time discussing human romance, though neither of the characters are from that background.

Also, it felt like the writers just wanted to play with their 50s Las Vegas lounge setting and they honestly could have thrown any two characters into the setting.

Just a bit too much holodeck play for my liking.

I would have preferred if Odo found some way to appeal to Kira that used Bajoran customs or if they came to an understanding some other way that felt truer to the characters.

Plus, I just don't like Vic Fontaine all that much.

 

[Gary Mitchell]

Why would you want to make DS9 more like the new BSG when DS9 is a better show than BSG?

 

[Lateralus]

Agreed.

And... he states it as if BSG hasn't had bad episodes. There were more shit episodes in S4 of BSG than I think there were in any season of DS9.

 

[jgdst]

Most of the episodes in that list are part of a story arc of their own (Ferengi development, Mirror Universe for example)... I'm not saying I thought every episode was the best, but I think every episode needed to be in there, as it provided a well rounded, more "human" feel to the Trek universe.

Enterprise season 3 is a good example of what DS9 would've been like if it was only about the Dominion arc - there was no room for a little fun, or just to get away from the heavier stories.

Most of the episodes in the list are a kind of "calm before the storm", which I noticed DS9 tended to have right before something horrific happened Consider the number of "filler" episodes before the harrowing experiences in The Siege of AR-558 If all the episodes had been this dark, I don't imagine the show would have been anywhere near as fun to watch.

Just my two pennies tho

 

[crouteru]

Interesting thread. I'd remove the following:

Q-Less
The Passenger
Move Along Home
The Storyteller
If Wishes Were Horses
The Forsaken
Dramatis Personae

Melora
Second Sight
Sanctuary
Rivals
Playing God
Profit And Loss

Meridian
Fascination

The Muse

Let He Who Is Without Sin...
Ferengi Love Songs

Resurrection
Profit And Lace
Time's Orphan

Prodigal Daughter
The Emperor's New Cloak