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Curious - what are the distinctions between England, Great Britain, UK

Curious - what are the distinctions between England, Great Britain, and the United Kingdom?

England and the United Kingdom I can distinguish, but it is the relationship between England and Great Britain, as well as the relationship between Great Britain and the United Kingdom which I am ambiguous about as an American.

Also, when referring to the Commonwealth of Nations, is it referring to former territories of England or Great Britain?

Finally, why is the Union Jack (Great Britain) promoted more as the flag of England internationally than the official flag of England (a centered red cross over a white background)?

Sidebar: Also, I am curious to know when it comes to the Parliament, what are the distinctions between the House of Commons and the House of Lords?
 
Re: Curious - what are the distinctions between England, Great Britain

I suppose google & wiki was too much effort?

Briefly and leaving out some minor details:

Great Britain = England, Scotland & Wales
United Kingdom = The United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland
Commonwealth Realms = all those nations with the Queen as Head of State
Commonwealth Nations = a loose array of former British Empire countries (includes the Commonwealth Realms as a subset)

The Union Flag represents the UK internationally because that's the flag of the UK (St George's Cross represents England only, like the St Andrews saltire represent Scotland, or the Welsh Dragon represents Wales, etc, etc). England in the biggest country in the union, so people sometimes incorrectly think the Union Jack represents England alone. The Union Jack is technically what the Union Flag is when it's on a ship, however in common parlance the two are synonymous.

The House of Commons is the lower chamber of The Houses of Parliament.
The House of Lords in the upper chamber of The Houses of Parliament.
They can both be found in the Palace of Westminster.

Hope that helps! :)
 
Re: Curious - what are the distinctions between England, Great Britain

The House of Commons is the lower chamber of The Houses of Parliament.
The House of Lords in the upper chamber of The Houses of Parliament.
They can both be found in the Palace of Westminster.
Where does Ireland fit into the United Kingdom? Or, are they completely separate thus Ireland feeling excluded from its surrounding neighbor countries?

Also, is the House of Commons representative of lower class English or Brits? And, is The House of Lords representative of upper class English or Brits?
 
Re: Curious - what are the distinctions between England, Great Britain

The House of Commons is the lower chamber of The Houses of Parliament.
The House of Lords in the upper chamber of The Houses of Parliament.
They can both be found in the Palace of Westminster.
Where does Ireland fit into the United Kingdom? Or, are they completely separate thus Ireland feeling excluded from its surrounding neighbor countries?

Also, is the House of Commons representative of lower class English or Brits? And, is The House of Lords representative of upper class English or Brits?

Did you never take a history or civics class? hell, use wikipedia.
 
Re: Curious - what are the distinctions between England, Great Britain

The Republic of Ireland is not part of the United Kingdom. The question of 'feeling excluded' is I suppose answered by a lot of history.

The House of Commons is an elected chamber. The House of Lords is not. The latter traditionally is associated with the aristocracy but as ever things aren't quite that simple.

English and British are not synonymous.
 
Re: Curious - what are the distinctions between England, Great Britain

The House of Commons is the lower chamber of The Houses of Parliament.
The House of Lords in the upper chamber of The Houses of Parliament.
They can both be found in the Palace of Westminster.
Where does Ireland fit into the United Kingdom? Or, are they completely separate thus Ireland feeling excluded from its surrounding neighbor countries?

:lol:

Also, is the House of Commons representative of lower class English or Brits? And, is The House of Lords representative of upper class English or Brits?

:guffaw:

Sorry, someone else will have to deal with these questions; I need to go suture my sides back together.
 
Re: Curious - what are the distinctions between England, Great Britain

Aw man, now you make me look too serious with my straight-forward answers.
 
Re: Curious - what are the distinctions between England, Great Britain

Aw man, now you make me look too serious with my straight-forward answers.
Come now,

Surely as a proper English or British gentleman (?), you would be so kind as to be forthcoming with (for the English and the Brits) everyday, mundane information?

The House of Commons is the lower chamber of The Houses of Parliament.
The House of Lords in the upper chamber of The Houses of Parliament.
They can both be found in the Palace of Westminster.
Where does Ireland fit into the United Kingdom? Or, are they completely separate thus Ireland feeling excluded from its surrounding neighbor countries?

Also, is the House of Commons representative of lower class English or Brits? And, is The House of Lords representative of upper class English or Brits?

Did you never take a history or civics class? hell, use wikipedia.
Wikipedia doesn't quite do it for me here due to it convoluting what I needed to know, so I decided to ask ordinary English or British citizens on this board.

Also, when I was in high school back in the early-90's, European history was a separate advance placement track from the mandatory United States history taught throughout grades K-12.

What do you expect when the American school system does not offer "a comprehensive education system" like many other First World Countries do?

We have a current US president who called Greeks "Grecians" when he first assumed office, so shows you how much the average American -- let alone our highest ranking public official -- who has gone though its public school system knows. :rolleyes:

Not me of course. I have a Bachelor of Arts degree, and know a lot of facts that average American citizens are not informed of or are particularly aware of because they prefer to chat about "mindless bullshit" when they socialize rather than participate in active discourse. No, I am not being arrogant when I state that as a fact. Unlike some of the undereducated "bullshitters" who I run across in my daily life who talk about mindless trivialities about some guy they fucked at a nightclub or what color socks they keep in their drawers, I keep myself up-to-date on events, social issues, and relevant academic information that affect my nation as well as internationally. Which is why I asked those simple questions above for you English or British to answer for me.

And, thanks for the help.
 
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Re: Curious - what are the distinctions between England, Great Britain

Also, when I was in high school back in the early-90's, European history was a separate advance placement track from the mandatory United history taught throughout grades K-12.

:cardie:

Where the hell did you go to school? They taught you US history, and only US history for 13 straight years? You should sue.
 
Re: Curious - what are the distinctions between England, Great Britain

The House of Commons is an elected chamber. The House of Lords is not. The latter traditionally is associated with the aristocracy but as ever things aren't quite that simple.

As I understand it, the House of Lords fuctions much the same as the Canadian Senate; it's the Upper House, with members appointed by the Queen as suggested by the Prime Minister, which acts as a second level of debate on all bills. Before a bill becomes law, it has to be approved by the House of Commons, then the Senate\House of Lords.
 
Re: Curious - what are the distinctions between England, Great Britain

This has given me horrible flashbacks of American tourists who assume Scotland is either an English state or still in some kind of war with them. I know plenty of nice, intelligent Americans (and family over i Americaland) but those kinds of tourists always seem to bump into me, constantly amazed we're not a third world country.

Not dumping you or anyone here in that category - just an all too common experience here.

Though even educated Americans I've met refer to the Union flag as the English flag. It bugged me on SG Atlantis too as there were staff with the Union flag... yet the still British Carson Becket wore the St Andrews.
 
Re: Curious - what are the distinctions between England, Great Britain

Where does Ireland fit into the United Kingdom? Or, are they completely separate thus Ireland feeling excluded from its surrounding neighbor countries?

I'll see if I can give you the short version.

Between 1800 and 1921, all of Ireland was a part of the United Kingdom--the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.

Between about 1919 and 1923, there was a revolution in Ireland.

The revolutionaries wanted all of Ireland to become an independent republic. But some people in the north-eastern part of the island wanted to remain part of the United Kingdom.

So, in 1920, in the middle of the revolution, the British parliament passed an act (the Government of Ireland Act, 1920) which partitioned Ireland into two provinces: a few counties in the north-east became Northern Ireland; the rest became Southern Ireland.

But then, in 1921, the British government and the Irish revolutionaries agreed to a cease-fire and negotiated a treaty.

By the terms of this treaty, Ireland would become a self-governing dominion, like Canada--a Commonwealth Realm (see Holdfast's post above) called the Irish Free State.

Northern Ireland was given the chance to opt out of this new Irish Free State, which it immediately did, and has remained a part of the United Kingdom ever since.

In 1937, the Irish Free State adopted a new, republican constitution and began calling itself simply Ireland (or, in Irish, Eire). This created a very strange constitutional situation. On the one hand, Ireland now had both a President (President Douglas Hyde) and a King (King George VI). On the other, Ireland was the only Commonwealth Realm to declare neutrality in the Second World War.

Finally, in 1949, Ireland became a fully independent republic, and left the Commonwealth.

Ireland does not feel 'excluded' from its surrounding neighbour countries: as I mentioned above, it actually fought a war of independence from the UK, between 1919 and 1921. Its history and culture is quite distinct from the countries that make up the UK--which are themselves quite distinct from each other.

Here are two faux pas that you absolutely must avoid when speaking to Irish people, or they'll think you're some kind of idiot.

1. Remember that Ireland (that is to say, the Republic of Ireland) is not a part of the UK. Only the province of Northern Ireland is a part of the UK.

and

2. Remember that Ireland is a republic, with an elected President. They have nothing to do with the British monarchy any more.
 
Re: Curious - what are the distinctions between England, Great Britain

So which part of Ireland gives us Lucky Charms?
 
Re: Curious - what are the distinctions between England, Great Britain

Curious - what are the distinctions between England, Great Britain, and the United Kingdom?

England and the United Kingdom I can distinguish, but it is the relationship between England and Great Britain, as well as the relationship between Great Britain and the United Kingdom which I am ambiguous about as an American.

Alright.

So here's the deal:

The group of islands located north of Western Europe is known as the British Isles or as Britain and Ireland.

The eastern island is called Great Britain. The western island is called Ireland.

On the island of Great Britain, centuries after the Romans left, there used to be three separate states: The Kingdom of England, the Kingdom of Scotland, and the Principality of Wales. On the island of Ireland, the Kingdom of Ireland was established.

During the Middle Ages, the Kingdom of England conquered the Principality of Wales and incorporated it into England. The Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland used to constantly fight. Meanwhile, the Kingdom of England eventually conquered the Kingdom of Ireland, though they didn't formally incorporate it into England as they had with Wales.

After the Queen of England, Elizabeth I, died in the early 1600s, she left no direct heirs. As a result, the King of Scotland, James VI, inherited the English throne. He therefore became simultaneously the King of Scotland and the King of England. However, England and Scotland remained separate, independent states with their own unique Parliaments. Think of it as being like what would happen if someone became President of the United States and President of Mexico at the same time. This continued for James's heirs.

To celebrate this union of the crowns, a flag was created that combined the Flag of the Kingdom of England (known as St. George's Cross) with the Flag of the Kingdom of Scotland (known as St. Andrew's Cross or the Saltire).

When the monarchy was overthrown in England and the Commonwealth of England was established under Oliver Cromwell during the Interregnum as a result of the English Civil War, the Commonwealth of England passed the Act of Union 1652, which annexed Scotland. But that was all undone when the monarchy was restored and the Kingdom of England re-established; they became separate kingdoms sharing a single line of monarchs again.

In 1707, the Kingdoms of England and Scotland passed the Acts of Union 1707, which dissolved the Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland and their respective monarchies and parliaments, and created in their place a new state known as the Kingdom of Great Britain. The Kingdom of Great Britain was legally a new state with a new monarchy and a new Parliament, though of course the persons involved in those roles under the previous governments continued in the new united Parliament and monarchy. The 1606 "King's Colors" flag that had originally been created to represent the unity of the English and Scottish crowns was now adopted as the Flag of the Kingdom of Great Britain -- the Union Flag, aka the Union Jack.

For the record, it was the Kingdom of Great Britain that the Thirteen Colonies declared their independence from in 1776.

In 1800, the Kingdom of Great Britain and the Kingdom of Ireland (which, recall, was essentially a puppet government for the English and then the British) passed the Act of Union 1800, which dissolved the Kingdom of Great Britain and the Kingdom of Ireland and replaced them with the new United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. As with 1707, it dissolved the existing state, monarchy, and parliament and replaced them with new counterparts. This is the modern British state. That year, St. Patrick's Cross was added to the Union Flag, creating the modern Union Jack. Because Wales had been conquered by England long before the Acts of Union 1707, they are not represented in the Union Jack, as they were at that time considered to be a part of England (though they aren't anymore).

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland existed as a state uniting the peoples of the islands of Great Britain and Ireland until 1922, when all of the counties on the island of Ireland other than the northeasternmost six left the United Kingdom to form the , a sovereign Dominion within the British Empire with a legal status akin to Canada's or Australia's. Meanwhile, those six counties stayed in the UK and became known as [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland"]Northern Ireland.

The Irish Free State, like Canada, was considered a separate country within the Empire, but the UK King was considered to be the King of the Irish Free State and represented by a Governor-General. The IFS was dissolved in 1937 and replaced with the current Irish state, known formally in English as Ireland and formally in Irish as Éire. It is also sometimes called the Republic of Ireland or the Irish Republic. The Irish Republic is completely independent of the United Kingdom and has no more legal relationship with them than the United States does.

Meanwhile, the United Kingdom changed its name to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland in 1927 (and the monarch's title changed to "King/Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" rather than "King/Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland"). That's the UK that still exists today; the UK created in 1801 is considered to be the same legal entity as the one that exists today (unlike the Kingdom of Great Britain or the Kingdoms of England and Scotland).

Anyway, the term "British" is a term that either refers to the peoples or things related to the island of Great Britain, or it is a term that refers to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. "Great Britain" is sometimes used as a synonym for "the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" in the same way that "America" is sometimes used as a synonym for "the United States of America" (ie, the geographic area being used when the speaker is referring to the polity). "Briton" is the UK's demonym, akin to our use of the term "American." The Flags of England, Scotland, and Wales continue as symbols of the unique parts of the UK.

Also, when referring to the Commonwealth of Nations, is it referring to former territories of England or Great Britain?

The Commonwealth of Nations is an international organization that was created after the fall of the British Empire. It consists primarily of states that were once colonies of the United Kingdom. (Colonies of the Kingdom of England, such as Virginia, became colonies of the Kingdom of England in 1707, and colonies of the Kingdom of Great Britain became colonies of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland in 1801, and they remained colonies of the UK after its name change in 1927.)

A little history: As a result of something called the Statute of Westminster 1931, the self-governing dominions of the British empire under the UK's jurisdiction became independent countries. It created independent monarchies for Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the Irish Free State, Newfoundland, and South Africa; as with the Union of the Crowns between England and Scotland, the monarch of the UK would become, separately, the monarch of each of those countries, represented in those countries by a Governor-General. Of those countries, Newfoundland later became part of Canada, and South Africa later became a republic that severed all legal ties to the monarch. The Statute of Westminster 1931 is stil in effect, and it's why Queen Elizabeth today is simultaneously Queen of the United Kingdom, Queen of Canada, Queen of the Commonwealth of Australia, Queen of New Zealand, and Queen of 12 other independent countries. There were other dominions later created where the monarch reigned independently of the UK, and some later became republics. Today, the states that share their monarch with the UK are known as Commonwealth realms.

Anyway, after the last of the British-conquered countries became independent in the early 1960s, the Commonwealth of Nations was created as a cultural successor to the empire -- it's an international organization that consists mostly of states that were once under UK control but which are today independent. It consists of both Commonwealth realms and republics that have severed all legal ties to anything British, and of a couple of states that were never part of the Empire but got to join anyway. In addition to being Queen of sixteen states, Elizabeth II is also Head of the Commonwealth.

Finally, why is the Union Jack (Great Britain) promoted more as the flag of England internationally than the official flag of England (a centered red cross over a white background)?

I don't think it is -- it's promoted as the UK Flag. Because England has the highest population in the UK, though, the UK is very English-dominated, so many English identify the UK with England, albeit inaccurately -- legally, there's no more equality of identification between England and the UK than there is between California and the US.

Sidebar: Also, I am curious to know when it comes to the Parliament, what are the distinctions between the House of Commons and the House of Lords?

The House of Commons is the directly elected lower house of the UK Parliament. Its members are known as "Members of Parliament," or MPs. The House of Lords is the upper house of the UK Parliament. It used to consist of the noblemen, and its members remain known as Peers. In the early 60s, though, inherited Peerages were abolished, and today Peers are created by the Queen upon recommendation from the Prime Minister (meaning that the PM actually picks Peers). The Peers used to consist mostly of noblemen (plus clergy from the Church of England), but nowadays it's mostly people who've done something nifty that the Prime Minister felt like rewarding (or his or her former cronies). A law passed in the early 1900s means that the Lords basically can't stop the Commons from passing any bill they want into law (though they can delay it a bit for debate). By convention, a Prime Minister cannot be from the Lords, only the Commons.

A small segment of the House of Lords, known as the Law Lords, consists of judges chosen to serve as the highest court of appeal in the UK, though that will change when the new Supreme Court of the United Kingdom begins its work.

Side note:

Within the UK, the UK Parliament created devolved Scottish, Welsh, and Northern Irish parliaments that have limited jurisdiction over their areas in the same way that state legislatures do in the US. The difference, though, is that the UK Parliament created them and can abolish them at its pleasure, whereas the US Congress cannot abolish a state government.

ETA:

I see that this was all covered before. But hopefully hearing it another way will also help you understand it.
 
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Re: Curious - what are the distinctions between England, Great Britain

A law passed in the early 1900s means that the Lords basically can't stop the Commons from passing any bill they want into law (though they can delay it a bit for debate). By convention, a Prime Minister cannot be from the Lords, only the Commons.

Really? That's interesting, as here in Canada, a law can't pass unless it's approved by both the Commons and the Senate.
 
Re: Curious - what are the distinctions between England, Great Britain

A law passed in the early 1900s means that the Lords basically can't stop the Commons from passing any bill they want into law (though they can delay it a bit for debate). By convention, a Prime Minister cannot be from the Lords, only the Commons.

Really?

Yep.

That's interesting, as here in Canada, a law can't pass unless it's approved by both the Commons and the Senate.

Well, the Parliament Act 1911 was passed back when the House of Lords still consisted of hereditary Peers rather than appointed folk.
 
Re: Curious - what are the distinctions between England, Great Britain

Also there are some very small towns in New England that are still being held by redcoats, who are sorely in need of new coats, as well as various internal organs.
 
Re: Curious - what are the distinctions between England, Great Britain

I haven;t reaf through the whole thread so my apologies if this has been answered

Is the Isle of Man part of Great Britain or only of the United Kingdom?

What about the Channel Islands etc?
 
Re: Curious - what are the distinctions between England, Great Britain

I haven;t reaf through the whole thread so my apologies if this has been answered

Is the Isle of Man part of Great Britain or only of the United Kingdom?

What about the Channel Islands etc?

The Isle of Man and the channel islands are not considered to be part of the UK. They're called Crown dependencies; they're considered possessions of the Crown.
 
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