like with cgi and stuff
that way he could keep playing Data
that way he could keep playing Data
Could they de-age Brent Spiner the way they did Jeff Bridges in Tron?
- Thread starter Beyerstein
- Start date
Re: Could they de-age Brent Spiner the way they did Jeff Bridges in Tr
That's assuming he would want to play Data again.
Of course, they wouldn't need to de-age him as much.
That's assuming he would want to play Data again.
Of course, they wouldn't need to de-age him as much.
Re: Could they de-age Brent Spiner the way they did Jeff Bridges in Tr
they will probably come up with some plot where data goes back in time and meets young data or something
they will probably come up with some plot where data goes back in time and meets young data or something
Re: Could they de-age Brent Spiner the way they did Jeff Bridges in Tr
Not like TRON Legacy and not on a TNG film budget; young Bridges was an all-CG character and not just airbrushed (like young Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen from whichever X-Men film that was). Digital Domain scanned Bridges, made a 3D model off of that data, and used Avatar-style facial capture to transfer the real actor's performance over to the CG face; and from what I've heard, that consumed something in the area of 1/5th of TRON's 200 million dollar budget. (It's surprisingly difficult to find links online to corroborate this; you'll just have to trust me.)
I guess if Paramount a) decided to bring TNG back for another film and b) lost their marbles and threw TRON or JJ-Trek level money at it, then yeah, we could see a digitally de-aged Spiner. Why they would bother, though, is beyond me. In all the films that have done something similar to their actors, its been a story point; e.g., there's a flashback, or the younger version represents a different character. With Data, the only thing they'd be doing is appeasing the hard-core Trek fetishists who remember that Spiner used to look different and who think that an android shouldn't age. It would basically be throwing cash at an effect that wouldn't impact the film-going experience of 95% of the audience.
Not like TRON Legacy and not on a TNG film budget; young Bridges was an all-CG character and not just airbrushed (like young Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen from whichever X-Men film that was). Digital Domain scanned Bridges, made a 3D model off of that data, and used Avatar-style facial capture to transfer the real actor's performance over to the CG face; and from what I've heard, that consumed something in the area of 1/5th of TRON's 200 million dollar budget. (It's surprisingly difficult to find links online to corroborate this; you'll just have to trust me.)
I guess if Paramount a) decided to bring TNG back for another film and b) lost their marbles and threw TRON or JJ-Trek level money at it, then yeah, we could see a digitally de-aged Spiner. Why they would bother, though, is beyond me. In all the films that have done something similar to their actors, its been a story point; e.g., there's a flashback, or the younger version represents a different character. With Data, the only thing they'd be doing is appeasing the hard-core Trek fetishists who remember that Spiner used to look different and who think that an android shouldn't age. It would basically be throwing cash at an effect that wouldn't impact the film-going experience of 95% of the audience.
Re: Could they de-age Brent Spiner the way they did Jeff Bridges in Tr
And if they'd wanted to keep making TNG movies after NEM, they would have, instead of rebooting the entire franchise with a new TOS cast. So yeah, even though they theoretically could, in the sense that the technology now exists, I don't see any reason to think they would.
(For what it's worth, IMDb gives Tron: Legacy an estimated budget of $300 million, which is more than twice the budget of the 2009 Star Trek film and five times the budget of Nemesis, although that's not corrected for inflation.)
And if they'd wanted to keep making TNG movies after NEM, they would have, instead of rebooting the entire franchise with a new TOS cast. So yeah, even though they theoretically could, in the sense that the technology now exists, I don't see any reason to think they would.
(For what it's worth, IMDb gives Tron: Legacy an estimated budget of $300 million, which is more than twice the budget of the 2009 Star Trek film and five times the budget of Nemesis, although that's not corrected for inflation.)
Re: Could they de-age Brent Spiner the way they did Jeff Bridges in Tr
In addition, the young CG-Bridges in Tron looks pretty much like crap.
In addition, the young CG-Bridges in Tron looks pretty much like crap.
Re: Could they de-age Brent Spiner the way they did Jeff Bridges in Tr
Interesting. I did use Google to find the $200 million figure, but I've no firsthand knowledge of which number is correct.
Also, this. DD is no Weta when it comes to facial animation.
Interesting. I did use Google to find the $200 million figure, but I've no firsthand knowledge of which number is correct.
Also, this. DD is no Weta when it comes to facial animation.
Re: Could they de-age Brent Spiner the way they did Jeff Bridges in Tr
Although, since Clu in Tron: Legacy is a computer construct in-story anyway, maybe it's not so bad that the character looks computer-generated.
And to be fair, it's harder to make a recreation of a human face look as convincing as a distorted face like Gollum or an alien face like a Na'vi, because we're more familiar with a human face and thus more sensitive to the imperfections.
Although, since Clu in Tron: Legacy is a computer construct in-story anyway, maybe it's not so bad that the character looks computer-generated.
And to be fair, it's harder to make a recreation of a human face look as convincing as a distorted face like Gollum or an alien face like a Na'vi, because we're more familiar with a human face and thus more sensitive to the imperfections.
Re: Could they de-age Brent Spiner the way they did Jeff Bridges in Tr
Make it 99.999999999% and we have a deal.
Re: Could they de-age Brent Spiner the way they did Jeff Bridges in Tr
I could buy that if a.) the film weren't populated with computer-construct characters who do look like real people, and b.) Jeff Bridges in the real-world flashbacks looks exactly like Clu.
True. But a large part of what's wrong with Clu is the soft tissue simulation around his mouth; the texturing, lighting and shading is spot-on. So they have the ability to do it well, they just failed on this one part. And the extreme-closeup of the sleeping Gollum in ROTK looked more like soft tissue driven by muscles than anything with young Bridges in Tron Legacy. It either moves like flesh or it doesn't. Frankly, I just can't chalk that up to being less sensitive to imperfections.
(And I'm not saying they did a horrible job of making a CG human, either. It's just an area that needs improvement, as I'm sure will happen.)
I could buy that if a.) the film weren't populated with computer-construct characters who do look like real people, and b.) Jeff Bridges in the real-world flashbacks looks exactly like Clu.
True. But a large part of what's wrong with Clu is the soft tissue simulation around his mouth; the texturing, lighting and shading is spot-on. So they have the ability to do it well, they just failed on this one part. And the extreme-closeup of the sleeping Gollum in ROTK looked more like soft tissue driven by muscles than anything with young Bridges in Tron Legacy. It either moves like flesh or it doesn't. Frankly, I just can't chalk that up to being less sensitive to imperfections.
(And I'm not saying they did a horrible job of making a CG human, either. It's just an area that needs improvement, as I'm sure will happen.)
Re: Could they de-age Brent Spiner the way they did Jeff Bridges in Tr
First the studio would have to have a reason to do another TNG movie. They don't.
First the studio would have to have a reason to do another TNG movie. They don't.
Re: Could they de-age Brent Spiner the way they did Jeff Bridges in Tr
Well, I think the issue of whether or not they could "de-age" Brent Spiner is a separate issue from whether or not they'd have motivation to make another TNG movie.
But I agree with Elf_Malakai and THE_FETT. There's simply no reason to "de-age" him. Data established in the series that he is programmed to "age" in physical appearance, which is a reasonable cop-out for those who care about such things, and the vast majority of the audience would not care one way or the other.
Well, I think the issue of whether or not they could "de-age" Brent Spiner is a separate issue from whether or not they'd have motivation to make another TNG movie.
But I agree with Elf_Malakai and THE_FETT. There's simply no reason to "de-age" him. Data established in the series that he is programmed to "age" in physical appearance, which is a reasonable cop-out for those who care about such things, and the vast majority of the audience would not care one way or the other.
Re: Could they de-age Brent Spiner the way they did Jeff Bridges in Tr
Indeed. In fact, the only story so far where a younger-looking Spiner would have made sense was in Nemesis, as B-4 was a prototype who had been deactivated for years and thus could plausibly look like a younger version of Data. And they were on such a relatively tight budget that there's no way they could have afforded it. (They had to write out the other Starfleet ships in the final battle because they didn't have enough money for them. I mean, cripes.) But of course, that would have fucked up the whole switcheroo plot gimmick anyway.
Indeed. In fact, the only story so far where a younger-looking Spiner would have made sense was in Nemesis, as B-4 was a prototype who had been deactivated for years and thus could plausibly look like a younger version of Data. And they were on such a relatively tight budget that there's no way they could have afforded it. (They had to write out the other Starfleet ships in the final battle because they didn't have enough money for them. I mean, cripes.) But of course, that would have fucked up the whole switcheroo plot gimmick anyway.
Re: Could they de-age Brent Spiner the way they did Jeff Bridges in Tr
I wonder... does Paramount have in former contracts with Trek stars to "own" and "use" their likeness as CGI in future projects?
My first inclination reading this thread title would be that they would need detailed permission from each actor to do this sort of thing... and my second thought was that perhaps they already do.
Agreed completely, however it remains to be seen the impact of Soong's work in future centuries in the Trek universe. Didn't Maddox project the possibility of having a Soong-type android on every starship? Because in future projects (Trek on tv again 10-15 years from now perhaps) set in a future timeline, that could be a very real and feasible reason to have CGI Data(s). Of course, Picard and Guinan spoke to the topic of it being tantamount to slavery... but that doesn't mean it wouldn't make an effective storytelling device.
I wonder... does Paramount have in former contracts with Trek stars to "own" and "use" their likeness as CGI in future projects?
My first inclination reading this thread title would be that they would need detailed permission from each actor to do this sort of thing... and my second thought was that perhaps they already do.
Agreed completely, however it remains to be seen the impact of Soong's work in future centuries in the Trek universe. Didn't Maddox project the possibility of having a Soong-type android on every starship? Because in future projects (Trek on tv again 10-15 years from now perhaps) set in a future timeline, that could be a very real and feasible reason to have CGI Data(s). Of course, Picard and Guinan spoke to the topic of it being tantamount to slavery... but that doesn't mean it wouldn't make an effective storytelling device.
Re: Could they de-age Brent Spiner the way they did Jeff Bridges in Tr
It's been standard practice in actor's contracts for quite some time that the actor gets to control use of their likeness, even if that likeness is being used in the portrayal of a character that the studio owns. That's been true since at least the late 70's or early 80's. Leonard Nimoy was one who helped establish that, as were Tom Wopat and John Schneider with Dukes of Hazzard.
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